Rifling machine plans

However, great minds in Persia, India and China did not spark similar advances. I wonder if the difference was cultural attitudes to change.

"Jim Wilkins" snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com on Mon, 4 Nov 2019 15:45:08 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Bingo. It is interesting to note that much of the scientific development of The West (specifically England,) was done by Dissenters, those who were not part of the Established Church. Likewise the early Golden Age of the Muslim world had as much to do with non-muslim scholars, and a desire by Muslim potentates to "show off." But that changed in the 12th (??) Century with a judgment that what we would call "science" was not compatible with Islam.

It has also been said that one issue which helped hold China back was the Mandate of Heaven. If the Emperor said "do it" it got done. If he said "nope" - it didn't happen. I'm thinking of the expeditions which reached to Madagascar(iirc), but were ended "suddenly", the ships left to rot on the beach.

But it is a puzzlement.

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My personal, unproven opinion is that a critical element is social acceptance of successful and influential people working with their own hands at home. A British expat racing engineer who lives in Spain told me they don't understand at all why he would buy machine tools and materials to make suspension parts etc at home, it Just Isn't Done. Fortunately Brits are allowed, even expected, to be eccentric.

"Wll, here in Mexico, woodworking as a hobby is practically non existent, mostly because of cultural and as mention economic reasons. Most woodworking here is done by carpenters, and it is viewed a a trade practiced by not very educated people. It used to be that hiring a carpenter was so cheap that well to do people would rather do that than be seen with a hammer in hand."

Brazil: "Some societies have historically considered manual labor to be demeaning, in the sense of indicating lower social status. At the extreme, manual labor in those societies was assigned the people of lowest status-slaves. Those who have had the social prestige as well as the political power and economic wherewithal to change those cultural norms, the descendants of the masters, have had little incentive to do so."

This mirrors my experience in Germany: "On the economy" means outside the self-contained American society of the military bases, where most troops stayed. I was very much the exception, exploring the towns and countryside as much as possible. "From Glenn's post, it sounds like little has changed since I lived and worked wood in Germany. I bought most of my wood through the on-post craft shop because all I could find on the economy was roughsawn blue spruce (that was in the 80's). My German friends, those who worked with their hands anyway, were mostly into working on thier cars and motorcycles. The only woodworkers I met were pros."

"Jim Wilkins" snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com on Mon, 4 Nov 2019 19:10:33 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

There are a whole lot of cultural reasons, as you point out. The difference between the Aristocracy and "Trade" goes way back. And while his Lordship might take up woodturning as a hobby, it was not something "serious". This was prevalent even in the late 1800s: the British boffins would discover a means to make an artificial fibre, dye, "thing", but it would be the Germans who created an industry. Research and the pursuit of Science was a noble thing. Making money from it was just so, so, well, it just wasn't seemly. Which is why so many British aristocratic family had American daughters in law. With the bride came the money to keep the family estates.

Anyway, this still doesn't explain how so many Englishmen got wealthy "in trade" making steel, coal, cloth, etc, etc, and other parts of the world didn't. "Culture" explains some of it, but that is a very large tent. The question comes: why did (the English especially) Western Europe get not just the "science" but the technological advances? Starting with gun-powder. The Chinese had it, but firearms never became "big".

A good starting point is why the French failed to develop so many of their numerous inventions. The word "sabotage" (wrecking machinery with heavy wooden shoes, Sabots) comes to mind.

"...eventually the movement was suppressed with legal and military force."

"Xena" showed pretty good examples of that Chinese artillery, although they couldn't resist adding in an apparent nuke.

Western guns (gonnes) were similarly crude in that era and didn't fit the ethic of the heroic knight.

And still don't. How often do you see foreign complaints that some common (to us) item is too heavily taxed to import and not made locally?

"Jim Wilkins" snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com on Tue, 5 Nov 2019 17:26:15 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

But, once they got the major kinks worked out, musketeers were easier to train than archers. "Quaintly has its own quality."

I remember James Burke in his series "Connections" point out that after the Burgundian wars in the mid 15th C, the Swiss pike formation revolutionized warfare, because a pike formation could stop Knights, for a whole lot less. Later, as the handgonnes got more reliable, the "bayonet" was invented, allowing you to outfit a "combined arms" (guns and pikes) for less. Etc, etc.

"Jim Wilkins" snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com on Fri, 25 Oct 2019 12:54:34

-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

There are many reasons, some specious, some plausible.

Life is a waterfall.

I think it is because they embraced change (then found out it gave them power and made tons of money, too.) It probably had something to do with concentration of like-minded people, too.

Especially these two, and later their apprentices:

I brought up the subject of what enables or hinders progress because we are in a golden age right now, and an envious element who hasn't learned how to participate constructively and politicians who seek a larger power base of Miserati whom they can falsely promise to help by punitively taxing success are trying to destroy it.

"We're in a Golden Age, but can only see darkness ahead."

Cool.

The USA had comparably talented inventors but they didn't work together.

Wow, so much loss for these poor guys! Then fame for Fulton rather than Fitch. That sucks. But we did have some very talented people in the USA.

Larry Jaques snipped-for-privacy@invalid.diversifycomm.com> on Sat, 23 Nov 2019

21:37:54 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

History is full of guy A inventing / discovering something "first" but guy B is the one who got the publicity. E.G., it is called "America" because the map maker called it after Americo Vespucci, for various reasons.

It's often A, B, C and D tinkering with the idea, then E making it practical after a different advance removes the last stumbling block. Steam transportation required stronger boilers, airplanes needed lightweight engines.

In my own experience the Segway required solid-state gyros, and cell phones required A/D converters fast enough to digitize radio frequencies. I was building prototypes with digital storage scope components.

"Jim Wilkins" snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com on Sun, 24 Nov 2019 18:39:58

-0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

As I understand it. one of the critical features of steam engines (smooth round cylinders which allowed a tight fit) came as a result of development in the armaments trade: the ability to bore out cannon barrels. And so forth.

Although I have plans for a steam powered aeroplane. (circa 1908 iirc)

I recall reading an article of a guy who made a processor using individual transistors soldered to circuit boards.

There is a lot of "retro-" building where people are doing "by hand" as a hobby what is not practical to do commercially. I make wooden boxes, the wife crochets blankets. Nobody is going to pay for our time, the best we can hope for is to cover materials. "It is a hobby."

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