Contest motor availabilty -- compared to 1987

Who else has been "busted" for shipping rocket motors as "model airplane parts"?

Just jerry.

Like telling everyone you're shipping legally and that you're a victim of TRA, when all along you were illegally shipping unclassified hazmat deceptively labeled as "model aircraft parts"?

Personally, I try to keep it contained within the vessel which is targeted...

David Erbas-White

Reece Talley wrote:

Most people don't even get that fancy... they probably just "plain box" them and don't call them anything. (I don't do ROL, so I can't comment on methods used to ship auction sales, but I've received motors shipped that way from a then-major commercial dealer... unlabeled USPS parcel!) The question in my mind is how did the enforcement action come to be initiated in the first place? (I have a few suspicions...)

-dave w

So how come you don't turn them into DOT/USPS to "level the playing field" since you are alleged to be a Jerry-kiss-ass?

That was a rhetorical queston BTW.

Jerry

Good point. Jerry lives and dies for RMR. I am 1 of maybe 2 people in our large club here in Denver that reads RMR.

Big Fine is a non-entity.

The more important question is, why did jerry do it? If he was legal and all?

You're not reading, then. It's already been stated before that it was the shipper that notified DOT.

-Kevin

Interesting - I can't find anything to that effect in the "Action on Appeal" document - where did you see this? (I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm finding it slightly difficult to believe that Yellow Freight would accept and deliver a shipment which they didn't consider to be properly packed or labeled, and _then_ complain to DOT... I'd expect them to simply refuse to carry it in the first place!)

-dave w

That's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that it appears that an enforcement case was brought against an individual case of what appears to possibly be a common (if "illegal") practice that generally goes unchallenged, and therefore the details of the circumstances come to be of historical interest.

(I use quote marks around "illegal" because I have certain doubts with respect to whether the the legal requirements are what they ought to be - but that's a separate question.)

-dave w

david: well even if it is "common" practice, and only one person gets poped, that still doesn't make it right for all the others that are doing the common practice..... You cannot sanction illegal behavior because 1000 other people may be also participating in the illegal activity..... I don't think the DOT picked on JI for any reason, other than hes probably been on their radar for a very long time...and as Kevin T. pointed out, it was the Shipper that notified the DOT that something was a miss.........

shockie B)

I don't know, but I can postulate the following taking place:

Recipient: "Great, here's my rocket motors!" Shipping Company: "Rocket motors?!? This says model aircraft parts, non-hazmat! Guess we'd better file with DOT about a shipper illegally sending material!"

David Erbas-White

Well, it doesn't make it "legal", is what you should be saying: whether it's "right or wrong" is still a separate issue from whether it's "legal or illegal", or where the law is or isn't enforced.

What kind of statement is that? You seem to be confusing "legality" with "legitimacy". Do you equate "right and wrong" with "compliance or violation of government requirements"?

My point is that these are all separate issues, and it's sloppy thinking to overlay them like you seem to want to. If you think it's evil to "plain box" ship model rocket motors, then you should speak to that point with reasons more cogent than "... because it's illegal".

-dave w

They were shipped from a place called "dynamic propellant technologies", "gee, I wonder what's inside?".

I don't know. If we know all the facts, the moral of the story would probably be don't piss people off when they know you've done something illegal.

My guess is that all you west coast guys line up to kiss this defunct dealers ass & that's why he wasn't ratted out.

Like I said - I'm guessing.

TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE PART I - CRIMES CHAPTER 83 - POSTAL SERVICE

HEADING

Sec. 1716. Injurious articles as nonmailable

STATUTE

(a) All kinds of poison, and all articles and compositions containing poison, and all poisonous animals, insects, reptiles, AND ALL EXPLOSIVES, inflammable materials, infernal machines, and mechanical, chemical, or other devices or compositions WHICH MAY IGNITE OR EXPLODE,and all disease germs or scabs, and all other natural or artificial articles, compositions, or material which may kill or injure another, or injure the mails or other property, whether or not sealed as first-class matter, are nonmailable matter and shall not be conveyed in the mails or delivered from any post office or station thereof, nor by any officer or employee of the Postal Service

This is why Estes and Aerotech have exemptions in place allowing their smaller motors to be mailed through the USPS.... IF you look at the postal regulations, Model rocket motors are considered 1.4S or 1.4C explosives.......but in smaller sizes and packaged and labeled accordingly they are permitted in the USPS..

When a person mail rocket motors without USPS permission they are violating 18 USC 1716 ..the penalty? up to 20 years in federal prison...... I would call that "illegal"

shockie B)