[saverocketrylater.tra]

Jerry Irvine wrote: (the usual hateful drivel)

Just for the record, in case some gullible newbie stumbles onto your post, I'd like to point out that Jerry Irvine is a pathological liar and convicted fraud who has been fined $40,000 by DOT for illegal shipping of motors. He has no credibility, especially when it comes to anything to do with TRA or NAR. He was kicked out of TRA in the early

1990's. He is a former/wannabe motor manufacturer who either can't or won't operate legally, and thus is unable to get his motors certified for consumer use. He is a sad, pathetic little man who spends all his time badmouthing everyone who has ever done anything to support, promote or protect the hobby. a

This shoould be in the Jerry FAQs.

Hateful drivel?

More like wise statements from people with official positions within TRA and NFPA.

Example.

Here are quotes from the Chairman of the Tripoli Motor Testing committee (TMT).

This, for reference, is the particular TMT Chair who did several notable things during his tenure.

1. Made the first truly comprehensive list of certified motors with all available fields of data as required by various regs and standards. As a result, there were quite a few missing fields of data noted. He mentioned that.

The reaction he received was notable and a point of contention for someone accustomed to full disclosure and documentation of results (he is an architect by trade).

1. Made a formal proposal to NFPA (the relevant sub-committees and the full committee) to add Tripioli Rocketry Associon, Incorporated to named status in the consumer motor certification language. Besides simply making the presentation, he raised the standards of testing and reporting (without adding new and unneeded permit requirements) at TMT along with a team of about 3 other hard working folks. He speaheaded this effort and succeeded. The reaction he received was notable and a point of contention for someone accustomed to full disclosure and documentation of results (he is an architect by trade).

See a trend here? TRA is opposed to disclosure, loves secrecy, mainly to cover up their folibles and shortcomings which are many and vast. And NOT on a path of correction (Note HPR magazine and ATF interactions)

One other possible way to go is testing and disclosure.

You know, like they promised to do so they could be named as a testing agency in NFPA code?

And this has NOTHING at all to do with a civil lawsuit between two (other) rocketeers back in 1991. This has nothing at all to do with any DOT fine for a single small shipment way back in 2001. This has nothing at all to do with any personal disputes.

It has to do with the lack of ethical practices by the TRA BOD when doing its formal duty regarding consumer rocket motor testing.

NOT testing motors and THEN declaring them certified is FRAUD.

Jerry

"I hate to 'chime and chirp' - but my 'approach' whipped a disaster area into shape in 7 weeks - and saved Tripoli's little butt with the NFPA. You are PERFECTLY free to contact ANYBODY on the committee for verification."

- John Cato, former TMT chair

"I have tried to really make motor testing a professional operation and it is very obvious to me now as to why Tripoli was having problems 'gaining credibility' with practically everyone in the outside world, because they *really* DON'T have it with some of the people that really matter. And this reputation is well deserved. To be perfectly frank - Tripoli is a sick organization. These bylaw and Articles of Incorporation issues are merely the tip of the iceberg. Symptoms, not the sickness, if you will. Let's hope I am wrong with my assessment. But, as I said, I really feel we may see some concerted efforts to further discredit me, both inside the Board and to the membership in general."

- John Cato

It is, isn't it??

Only one of the individuals you quoted ever had an "official" position in TRA, and he screwed it up and was booted out.

Cato is not _the_ Chairman. He hasn't even been a member of TRA for many years. He's just a former, disgraced chairman of TMT who was booted out of testing for not getting the job done, and was eventually booted out of TRA for good cause. Every TMT chairman we've had since Cato has actually gotten the job done.

He accomplished a few things, but nowhere near as much as you claim. Sadly, he was also a crackpot, and what little good he achieved was outweighed by the harm he caused.

That's funny coming from you. Heck, you won't even tell people what features one of your alleged products has. Tell us who owns USR? Who makes (or made) your motors, and where is the manufacturing facility? If you had an LEMP and were inspected by ATF, as you claim, what were you manufacturing and where? Are you a business owner?

Sorry Jerry, but those issues DO reflect on your credibility, and you have NONE. You've lied too many times, about too many things. For instance, you lied for years about having DOT approvals to ship your motors legally, and blamed TRA for not accepting your bogus DOT stuff. You lied too, when you shipped motors labeled as "model aircraft parts".

For the uninitiated newbie who stumbles on these threads, let me explain what Jerry's really talking about here. TRA won't accept Jerry's motors for certification, because of the many irregularities involved in his submissions. NAR won't accept them either. He lacks DOT testing and approvals for his motors, making them illegal to ship. He lacks the permits which ATF says are required for rocket motor manufacturing. He lacks the required state permits for manufacturing, sales and import/export of rocket motors. At various times he has attempt to submit motors for certification with bogus paperwork, paperwork in someone else's name, etc.

Since Jerry can't run his motor business legally, he is reduced to blaming all his problems on the hobby organizations. It's much easier for him to badmouth TRA and NAR than it is to get legal and run a legitimate business.

Still more Jerry FAQ material!

Really?

How did he screw it up?

Huh?

Really?

Jerry

..

It must be the glue.

jerry, are those supposed to be your eyes peering out from you rat hole?

This really takes the cake.

Jerry, you STARTED a thread whose very title was a flame, you have absolutely nothing to back it up, and then you post a reply to your own thread to try and change the title to a flame-free thread???

I'm sorry, this has got to be something MUCH stronger than just glue fumes...

David Erbas-White

Yes. o

Welcome to the crazy mixed up world of Jerry Irvine.

Yep. My guess is some type of mental illness. The paranoia, the delusions, the narcissism, the compulsive lying, all seem to point that way.

I know that bit of fact is in the "big fine" FAQ

That is a flat out LIE. ***NO*** TMT chairperson, other than John, has actually gotten the WHOLE job done. John came in when TRA was about a hairs width away from being booted off of the NFPA committee as a motor testing authority and saved the day for TRA. [In hindsight, this may have been a BAD thing...] John got booted from TMT and from TRA for discovering all the illegal crap that was going on behind closed doors, and blowing the whistle on Rogers, Kelly, et al. It was Jophn that exposed the boards illegal manipulation of the bylaws, hidden from members.

Sue was close, but even she did not release the delay testing information. One of the folks between John and Sue's tenure could only be described as fraudulent. He was the person who took Johns data, and changed it to certify motors that were either never tested, or failed testing.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Nice try - you have to post something for it to be FFT. Trolling and otherwise inflamatory stuff doesn't qualify. Also, you need to post something.. Repositng something that you already started the flaming on is probably not a good way to go either. 8-)

Glue fumes and CO2 are building up in the rat hole! Jerry - get some fresh air in there!!

DOT - Mr. Fine - how many tubes of glue do you sniff at a time?

Jerry - There's not much air circulation in my rat hole because TRA illegally decertified my explosives - er I mean motors - er I mean PADs.

DOT - Mr. Fine - how many tubes do you snif at a time?

Jerry - Less than two.

DOT Mr. Fine - are you saying you sniff one a t a time?

Jerry - I didn't say that.

Correct.

One of several.

But only certain brands. Other brands received even more draconion negative treatment.

Jerry