That type of cargo WAS allowed prior to Valuejet incident and the change in DOT policy affected ALL "Class 1" items, not merely the ones that were involved in the issue.
Yes they were mismarked.
However had they been properly marked, they would STILL have been on that flight and would have STILL ignited.
Non-intert was exempted from the regs and was shippable on aircraft. It was an "aircraft part" even when not in the aircraft but only being shipped by the air carrier on aircraft :)
And Fred Wallace endorses it of course. Predictible.
That could be accomplished WITHOUT the overhead of the entire DOT system by the Department of Commerce simply stating the package must have the name of the material on the outside of the package and on the traditional manifest or bill of lading. Done.
Heck, if it is really hazardous, staple an abatement procedure sheet to the bill of lading as well.
I'm surprised our moronic nanny government hasn't banned anything that is a white powder, or could produce a white powder. Confectioners sugar, flour, sanding sealer, and even AP.
:-(
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Not entirely true, since the paper trail requires shipping classification, and part of that requires proper packaging.
For example, imagine a box of glass bottles of a strong acid, improperly packaged. The driver of a truck slams on his brakes a bit hard, the bottles slam together, break, and now start leaking all over goodness knows what else that may, or may not react.
Properly labeled and packaged, those bottles are a lot less likely to break. May not even be allowed to ship in glass, for that very reason!
Well, if your point is that there's some kind of parallel with Jerry's shipment of model [ airplane parts / rocket motors ], then I explicitly disclaim such comparison... what specific mechanical condition existed, with respect to that shipment, such that the motors were likely to spontaneously ignite in truck transit?
As I understand it, the gas generators in the Valujet incident used a spring-loaded percussion-style igniter that is normally triggered when an oxygen mask is released from its overhead compartment and pulled down for use by a passenger... shipping them without the safety caps installed to disarm the ignition mechanism would have been like shipping small arms ammunition "packaged" in a cocked firearm... were Jerry's model rocket motors "packaged" with igniters installed and wired to launch controllers with batteries and interlock keys already in place?
But in the case of rocket materials (or even precursors) there is NO acute spill hazard, so that is an extreme example.
But once it is packaged, and papered and everybody trains to handle EVERY form of hazmat so they can occasionally haul typically ONE form, it is still shipped and transported exactly the same way it was before any of these regulations existed. And the accident rates have not decreased.
It used to be just fine to ship 1.4 and 1.3 by air. It was only because of the Valuejet overreaction they eliminated all Class 1, not merely that with its installed initiator safety devices disabled!!!!!
It makes it easier to see you are full of shit as usual by generating excuses on behalf of other people.
Who said anything about spontaneous ignition? Please don't attempt to put words in my mouth. The motors, if exposed to fire, would of/could of been a secondary ignition as a result of the fire as were the oxygen generator devises on value jet. From what you have said in the past, I don't expect you to understand the similarity concept. .
I guess, if you do not understand the concept that shipping unmarked flamiable hazmat in any variant is wrong, then you will not except the fact that either comparison was not an unexceptable practice.
"It used to be just fine to ship 1.4 and 1.3 by air. It was only because of the Valuejet overreaction they eliminated all Class 1, not merely that with its installed initiator safety devices disabled!!!!!"
Jerry,
1.3 can be shipped FedEx air (and others licensed) in quantities up to about
480 pounds NEQ, station to station. We do it routinely with very large motors for commercial and military customers. Compatibility of other cargo and routing is taken into account and that's important. The final call is also made by the pilot in command. I don't have the 1.4 limit handy but intrinsic 1.4 can go door to door and the regulations are a bit less stringent.
Or do mean passenger aircraft? That's bad for any class 1 or 5 or 4 etc, etc for very sane reasons. Number one being that all the cargo compliance criteria, especially compatibility, I just outlined don't come into play. If someone's NiCad battery in their shaver down in the cargo hold, shorts and sets off a case of J's in some adjacent package (neither checked for compatibility), the pilot will have a lot less time to get down to terra firma. The Valuejet example is a good example in some respects. It was started by a short (it could of just well been an electric shaver or a butane hair curler) in a bulk loaded cargo hold and ended up with a 3000 degree fireball in the that melted the control cables in a very short time. If the improperly shipped oxidizers were not there, the situation would have been much less severe and the crew may have had a chance to land. It's much to do with controlling compatibility and safety.
None of this will convince you so just ignore it.
Regards,
Anthony J. Cesaroni President/CEO Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
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