In the Press again

Do us all a favor and move to China so you can walk around with your right arm up giving the fascist salute so you can be happy in your life. The rest of us will stay in a country where there is this thing called a Constitution. Consider reading that instead of Clancy novels.

You clearly missed the point, no surprise there. The feds have no need to waste time and money on hobby rocketry because it is not a significant threat.

Wrong. The government is too busy wasting manpower on hobbyists when they should be tracking down actual terrorists.

I read it, and it's completely irrelevant to the topic of government over-regulation of sport rocketry.

Everyone here is aware of that already. If you had half a brain you would realize that it completely undercuts your argument for regulating sport rocketry. For one thing, that is NOT a sport rocket nor does it use a sport rocket motor. Secondly, it uses a homemade motor, which the ATF is NOT trying to regulate -- thus proving that regulating sport rocketry would be totally ineffective at the stated goal of preventing terrorists from using rockets as weapons. More importantly, those homemade rockets have been utterly ineffective as weapons, even in a situation where they can be more or less safely fired without worrying too much about hiding the launch.

Surely you're not that big an idiot. No, on second thought I guess you are.

None of which are as excessive, burdensome, costly or unwarranted as ATF regulation of rocketry.

You'll have a hard time doing that if your guns are locked up in a safe and have trigger locks on them.

No, just a freedom loving patriot who knows a fascist when he sees one.

Reminding you NAR and TRA improperly demand ATF permits is NOT demonization. It is information.

Informing you Fred raises uspicions rather than obtaining approvals as requested is not demonization but information.

Jerry

Not demeaning NAR ... just the process ... the process stinks, not the people ... chill ... you are taking it personally. Anyone else in your same position would have the same problems and issues.

Please state where I demeaned NAR ... you are missing the point ... let me say it out right:

You can deal with the devil all day long, but come night fall, the devil will ALWAYS have the advantage ... same applies with Uncle Sam. You are promising a day when model rocketeers from coast to coast will fly what they want anytime anywhere ... its NEVER going to happen ... you may achieve 60 percent, or even 80 percent, but you will NEVER achieve

100% of you desired goal with dealing with the Federal Government. Expecially given what your hobby involves and the current national security situation in this country. Don't you see the obvious?

Wow, those membership numbers are pathetic. If you divide that by 50 for each state in the Union that works out to roughtly 100 members per state ... and you wonder why the federal government ignores you :)

Lets see, should the government care about 100 people per state, or should it focus on the remaining 6,000,000 people per state ... hmm 6 million, 100, 6 million, 100 ... hmmmmm I just can't decide :)

Ok but is is back ground noise ... NAR dosen't matter anymore ... the space race is over ... the commies lost! The country has moved on too other things ... you and about 5,000 others have not :) Its a free country so chill ... fly till ya die!

OMG, so the BATF is just breaking down doors for the hell of it? Bunny, Jerry Irvine just set your hobby back, but you don't have the balls to say so! Not one of your postings has called Jerry's actions for what they are ... your "silence" on this matter speaks magnitudes! As far as I am concerned, your silince towards Irvine is a "wink and a nod" to what he did to himself and the good reputation of HONEST motor manufactures and dealers ... or am I wrong ... well which is it?

Step away from the AP and casings and put your hands on the car ... please someone video tape or take pictures then next time this happens!

Please see my earlier postings about the "homemade steel rockets" used by the PLO against the Israelis ... very interesting ... the 2nd version of the rocket has a range of 5 miles ... not bad ... hell I could use some of those against the gang bangers in my neighborhood! :P

Nope, and lets all work together to insure that never happens ... Ah Men.

There are meth houses that explode due to the chemicals that are used to make meth. There are also high flammable byproducts, and gases that result in motor manufacturing. I don't want my neighboor illegally storing 1000 lbs of black power (can or model rocket), or

1000 lbs NH4CLO4 (reloads or single use), or 1000 lbs of H2SO4/HCL (used to make meth) ...

Get the picture ... you want to do what ever it is you are into, do it somewhere so that should a disaster and loss of life occur, its impacts only you and not unsuspecting people or businesses ... like the Aerotech fire and deaths ... very dissapointed in Gary about that ... the other business owners in the industrial park lost their hard earned equipment and time too ... such a tragic waste and misjudgement ... but I guess its ok if my neighbor wants to do the same right? What is more important is his self gratification and not my safety ... right Bunny? Wrong.

Ok, 600 kids, the population of the United Stats is around 300 million. Roughly 1/4 are under the age of 18 ... so ... about 75,000,000 were doing something else other than flying model rockets ... again order of magnitudes ...

Face it, we like "lift-off of America's First space shuttle has just cleared the tower" ... most Americans do not ... to each their own :)

I did ... no change in mind or heart :(

Please see my earlier posting about the PLO building KNO3 rockets, and launching them against settlements in Gaza and other areas of Israel ... I know you don't want to accept it, but it is TRUTH and FACTUAL ... CNN said so!

Please see and learn Bunny ... there are alot of things that go "bump in the night" that you may not be aware of.

I still like and admire you Bunny ... just disagree in an ADULT manner. No name calling, just mental bashing! :) Good luck, I hope you win everything you seek, but I seriously doubt it :(

Ok, Mr. Irvine this will be my first and last direct correspondence with you via this news group.

You are a blight upon the model rockety community. Your personal actions undermind the LEGAL efforts that were and are being conducted by NAR and TRA to work out an amiable agreement with Federal and State agencies.

I feel sorry for you Mr. Irvine ... you had so much to offer to the rocketry community, but you did your best to alianate yourself from others.

When I use to attend launches, you were either the butt of jokes or the very mention of your name would cause the veins in peoples necks to appear ... I only thank God that I am not you.

To this end, I say goodbye and fare thee well for maybe in your next life time you will be something better.

Appeasement you mean.

"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."

- Thomas Jefferson

"90% of HPR/Amateur users are "lone rangers" who like to play with, fit test, and generally HAVE their motors in their posession as god and the law intended.

Hence why HPR is now down to 2500-3000 certified users (combined TRA/NAR) and amateur rocketry is up to well over 30,000 now.

Ahhh, the "advantages" of codification!

Rapid negative industry growth."

- Jerry Irvine

"Now you're starting to see how this group operates. Once you've been tagged a "troublemaker" it doesn't matter what you have to say, they just rip you apart. I found Jerry's post, in this case, to be thought-provoking and I am interested in verifying what he says." - Hank Ball

So do you. What's the difference between his flavor of regulation and yours? You believe in yours more?

Jerry

"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."

- Thomas Jefferson

"Actually, this entire group seem to be more interested in bashing Jerry than talking about the topic. I have never seen a bigger group of people with such a large penis envy complex."

- Bill Eide NAR 81647 L2 TRA 09812

"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."

- P.J. O'Rourke, Civil Libertarian

pathy ends.

How could Fred obtain approvals for you? He is not the DOT. Only the DOT can issue permits to you, not Fred.

You're the one who keeps saying "it doesn't matter what the law says, the only real question is whethewr or not you are given trouble by the government..."

- and then you turn around and speak of "being legal" as if it were subject to some sort of absolute standard.

-dave w

Hile?

Are you really THAT stupid?

Next you'll be saying "Seek Hile"

:-)

"And what's you're name little boy?"

Or to be PC..."little person"....just in case.

:-)

John Stein

That's not demeaning?

Neither. It should focus on protecting the rights of all citizens, as demanded by the Constitution.

Make it your last correspondence ON this news group.

I think I can safely say that everyone here is saying the same thing about you.

No, that's BS. NAR/TRA only require what the government enforcement agency tells them is necessary.

BS again. He was not requested to obtain approvals, nor would he have the power to do so since he's not an agent of DOT. You asked him to pass along the documents you gave him, and he did that.

As for "raising suspicions", YOU did that when you concocted the unbelievable story about DOT "losing" everything you ever (allegedly) sent them. You need to come up with more believable lies if you don't want people to become suspicious.

Dave W. wrote:

Jerry wrote:

Bull. I have NEVER said I was in favor of more regulation. I'm in favor of less government regulation -- but that's where you go off the tracks. You want to pretend government regulations don't exist, and demonize anyone who tries to comply with them.

He absolutely was.

So you paid Fred, to obtain DOT approvals for DPT?

Is Fred an employee of DPT? No, wait a minute, DPT only has one employee and that would be jerry.

So how could it be Fred's responsibility to obtain DOT approvals for DPT?

It's your responsibility to get your own permits from the DOT. No one else's.

Haven't they at least shown that our rocket propellant is a significant fire hazard if left exposed in the back of a rentla truck?

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!