JC, TRA and the future of rocketry

why would you look to hold a club responsible, rather than its insurer, Bob? Or am I missing something here?

- iz

Bob Kaplow wrote:

I guess it depends on just what waiver terms you negotiated with your local FAA field office - AIUI, some waivers are simply for "unmanned rockets" (of a certain size and quantity, at a certain time). (This would include waivers for "amateur" launches, for example.)

-dave w

Best thing TRA could have done for AT after the fire woulda been to let Jerry's motors back in, to "keep it warm" for AT. Less of us woulda drifted off to racing cars or RC airplanes or whatever... there would have been more of a market for AT to come back to.

-dave w

I think TMT tested the first series (the "original recipe" types). Sue M. posted about them here.

Yep, they're a "solid" class 1.4C item (by actual test).

-dave w

All correct.

The backstory why CTI didn't just keep using TRA is interesting and extremely phunnie, but as a non-CTI guy I best let them speak for themselves, or more likely not at all!

BTW 1.4C 54mm K's and L's is exceptional on a UN basis.

If the insurance was insufficient or lapsed, either one as a result of an act or omission by the club.

This of course assumes the club has any assets to collect.

Every aspect of that deal broke the Jerry Irvine rules.

I congratulated Anthony and his employee and I had numerous drinks to celebrate.

Apparently you don't think so. So, when will you be publicly publishing your policy?

Or do you just want to admit your hypocracy now and be done with it?

-Kevin

Dave W. wrote:

I find it amusing I am important enough to risk numerous causes of action and a multi-million dollar lawsuit over.

And I would have invited that. I do this for fun. The "enthusiast" market is miniscule. The main markets are elsewhere, some of which rely on the certs even though the motors do not show up at club launches anyway.

When they decertified USR it was barely noticed at TRA launches but at non-TRA launches the damages were emmense.

Point!

FAA regulations do not mention those things thank god. If your waivers do it is a result of how you or people before you applied for waivers.

Jerry

Outside of the issue of whether or not they told the insurance company they were doing EX, I don't see that there is any "increased risk" involved.

The real issue is the certified motor debacle. IF that voids insurance, then MOST TRA members have been unknowingly flying without PRIMARY insurance they thought they had MOST of the time for MOST of the past time insurance allegedly existed for consumers.

Not only is that a laibility risk, it is a HUGE waste of premium dollars and several levels of breach of fiduciary duty.

Just Jerry

The "need to know list" is about 100000% longer than TRA's.

Yeah really. If you're going to spend money on insurance, at least buy some that covers what you're actually doing, not some idealized version of it...

-dave w

Being a TRA member is not a free pass. In any case, if JC was told by the Prefect that the launch was insured, that should of been the end of it; but no, that did not fit JC's plan. He was bound a determined, if he was not going to play in the sand box, he would be sure and piss in it, so no one else could either.

All are welcome, even Jerry(:-)... Several folks come to our launches form you neck of the woods/concrete jungle.

Neither will I unless, someone slips up and starts the discussion

Fred

The indemnify and hold harmless waver was included on the advise of legal council...We also wanted our land owner/s to be held harmless for any of our club activities, to the greatest extent possible. When we decided to go the independent club rout, we did not take the legal issues lightly. We consulted with and continue to use the advise of a corporate attorney. We also have insured the local emergency and public safety folks know who we are, what we do, and when we have launches. On the East coast, you cross the t's and dot the i's, especially when your launch activities are less than an hour from DC and all the BS that comes with that issue. Even with all the BS, we still have a standing waver, at most launches, of 14,000' and call ins that are sometimes greater, on a case by case basis.

Fred