MR/LMR Launch Cancelled by FAA

jerry, It's quite obvious that the REAL moron around here, is the idiot who ships over 200 pounds of HAZMAT labeled as inert model airplane parts, and receives a $40,000 fine for his stupidity.
Reply to
Dave Grayvis
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Recheck section 101.22 (b)
YOU NOTIFY THE AIRPORT MANAGER IN THAT CASE as explained below...
Sec. 101.22 - Special provisions for large model rockets. Persons operating model rockets that use not more than 125 grams of propellant; that are made of paper, wood, or breakable plastic; that contain no substantial metal parts, and that weigh not more than 1,500 grams, including the propellant, need not comply with §101.23 (b), (c), (g), and (h), provided:
(a) That person complies with all provisions of §101.25; and
(b) The operation is not conducted within 5 miles of an airport runway or other landing area unless the information required in §101.25 is also provided to the manager of that airport.
Reply to
Greg Cisko
This person does NOT have the authority to say no. GO over his head.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Reply to
Bob Kaplow
No not shockie... On the NAR Sections list he is a kick ass Mo-Fo with all of this stuff squared away. At least it seems like it. Maybe someone hi-jacked his account?
Reply to
Greg Cisko
Well since they are about you, 1) I don't blame him and 2) I would not immediately dismiss this accusations as lies until I knew what they were, and lastly 3) I would not take your word for it.
Sorry :-)
If you say so, it is OK with me :-)
Reply to
Greg Cisko
They are.
NIRA fliers from a site about 8 miles from ORD. We see all sorts of airliners at altitudes well above our rockets, even when they are coming in or out right over our heads. Never had to HOLD for any of them. We do get the occasional private plane from DPA that we do have to hold for. We do 101.22 notification for all our launches. NFW would they grant a 5K waiver at this location.
And we flew a NARAM that was the first NAR HPR launch 19 miles from ORD 9R. For most of the week they rerouted traffic in and out of ORD around us! But we did get a waiver for 5 of the 7 days we requested. An airshow at DPA prevented the waiver the last 2 days.
The Fermi club (Greg has posted to this thread already) has had some issues with DPA, as they within their 5 mile radius. The FAA folks are cool with the Fermi activities, but the municipal airport manager is not. He has tried to get Fermi shut down, even for MR/LMR, but the Fermi folks have gone up the FAA chain and I think are still getting waivers for the site ( I see one on the FAA NOTAM list right now)
Bottom line, don't take NO for an answer from someone who doesn't have the authority to say no.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Reply to
Bob Kaplow
A good point. For small aircraft, you will hear them befroe you see them. Look *AND* listen.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Reply to
Bob Kaplow
25 years proves otherwise. And less-than-ideal does not mean can't be used. NIRA's field is less than ideal, but it's all we can get in a populated area. So we fly the field, and occasionally have to hold for a passing Cessna. NEVER for a 747.
At our previous field, we had to hold for horse traffic!
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Reply to
Bob Kaplow
If you've been following the last 7 years of BATFE discussions, you'd realize that just because someone has no authority to regulate something doesn't mean they keep their noses out of your business. Go over the idiots head, as far up as you have to got get the right answer.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Reply to
Bob Kaplow
A waiver they DO have the authority to say NO to. And they won't say YES if a local person says NO.
We had one year where ORD was willing to divert traffic in their airspace, but DPA was not. We didn't get a waiver. We got them the year before, and for several years afterwards. One person one year.
That was pre-FAR 101.22, so there was nothing we could do. If we requested a 5K waiver today, and they said NO, we could come back and do 102.22 notification to the same 5K and they couldn't stop us. At least not legally. That's what happened at NARAM-42 when they pulled the waiver at the last minute. We flew right up to the 1500/125g limits, and got several L1 certifications flown. But nothing bigger. ACROSS THE STREET from the airport.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Reply to
Bob Kaplow
Bob: I went over his head! Mr. Ortman asked me to call and discuss this matter with the Louiville Office FAA Supervisor, FSS.. which I did. Mr. Kelly, the FSS Supervisor told me that yes, I could fly there but be prepared to have the FAA on my butt the rest of my natural life..in so many words....he came right out and admitted to trying to intimate me into backing down and not flying, he admitted tried to intimate me, and I told him, well obviously I don't intimate very easily... We had a really good conversation.... He then said that I sounded like a reasonable and responsible person(which I am when it comes to rocketry stuff) and that he would talk to Mr.Ortman, and then suggested after he talked to Mr. Ortman, that I call Mr.Ortman,which I did. I left a message for him and he has not gotten back to me. He instead sent me the email .
Look I don't need to get into a hizzy fit with the local FAA people..
terry dean
Sec. 101.23 Operating limitations.
No person may operate an unmanned rocket--
(a) In a manner that creates a collision hazard with other aircraft;
Thats exactly what the ATC said in his email to me:
The model rocket launch you describe conflicts with the approach flight path to Lexington Blue Grass Airport and is at an altitude which creates a collision hazard with aircraft.
Reply to
shockwaveriderz
No, it does NOT. You have to watch for planes, and avoid them. Just like you have to watch for cars when crossing the street. You're not prohibited from crossing the street. You just have to wait for there to be no traffic.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Reply to
Bob Kaplow
Please define "local person". I have a local person who is always going to say no. Yet... Everything is YES :-) And the other thing is that some random FAA person cannot pull your waiver. It has to come from the issuer of the waiver. TRACON made that more than clear to me.
Reply to
Greg Cisko
Repeating the same wrong statement 3 times doesn't make it right.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Reply to
Bob Kaplow
Nice resolution to the situation. I think :-)
No you shouldn't. They should know their own %&$#-ing rules!!!!!!
If they don't, I would suggest taking Bob up on his offer for the phone #.
Reply to
Greg Cisko
True but since the locals already said no, maybe it's possible to enlist some help from above. It sounds like the local guys don't even know what modrocs are. The guys that give the waivers do. Just a thought at this point, it doesn't sound like he has much to loose.
Reply to
Phil Stein

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