Wrong. They also allow motors classed as flammable solids by DOT. Like all hazmat, the classification is up to DOT, not Jerry.
Check his website, where you'll find this statement:
"MOTORS OR CUSTOM CHECKLIST: Please note that due to NEW abusive government regulations added WITHOUT legal process we are not shipping motors until they pull their head out of their *** and return our civil rights to us, or we force it out of them through litigation."
Note that Jerry is saying he can't ship because of GOVERNMENT regulations. NOT TRA!
I can say whatever I want on the website. It does not state which jurisdiction or material it applies to either. One issue with so many motor types is the classification varies widely based not only on size and type and burning rate, and by year it was classified. The modern era has one thing going for it that we can always count on. It is becoming increasingly zero tolerance and overkill.
Furthermore the exact same precise material has at one point had FOUR different approved hazard classes at the same time! 1.3C, 1.4G, 4.1 and unregulated. So if the same exact material can have all four AT THE SAME TIME it seems the rules are themselves arbitrary and capricious. They are also based on budget constraints for testing, persistence and "juice". Notice I didn't mention anything silly like science or chemistry.
You may cry avoidance all you want, the statement is conclusive. I ask that you list the numbers to all paragraphs that have nothing to do with actual safety and performance. Same diff.
No, they do not have to shut the squeaky wheel up, but it's about time they actually attempted to solve the situation at an official level. Do they still require an LEMP, in contradiction to the lawsuit? Hmmm... no significant change. And the aforementioned signal would be
*explicitly* to JI.
Additionally,
Only to TRA and NAR because they require it. New orgs submitting with new docs that complies with the still broken system does nothing to solve the stated problems.
Same stuff, different paragraph.
Which TRA and NAR have no business even verifying. To do so legally entagles the largest organizations in the hobby into being police instead of hobby advocates.
! ... you are actually going there again... down by the river... in a van...
Easy discounts do not make changes to threats to the entire hobby. As long as I am in this hobby, I will persue this change in the current organizations. Further organizations will only serve to continue to fragment the hobby, and weaken its' already weak state, unless there is somehow some miraculous insurgence of people, but even those would be divied up into mostly the two dominant groups. Almost all rocketeers join NAR first, due to NAR being on every entry level kit and motor pack in the general marketplace. As long as NAR weilds this kind of influence over my ability to enjoy the hobby, I must be aware of the tac it takes, and try to help fashion a hobby that will be around for my kids to enjoy. Your belittling of me or anyone as a "crying child" will only serve to insult your own intelligence.
(sad head-shaking)... You say this in spite of the NAR/TRA lawsuit. If the hobby were not hurting, it would not be in court over hurting that should have been guarded against by prior action to maintain freedoms.
If that would solve the situation Joel, it would rather be my first choice, But it won't. In fact, it has been attempted, to no avail. The mess made by former mistakes needs to be fixed now first.
You don't have a whole lot of surety about that right now Joel, under the currently system. It didn't stop the J350's from disintegrating, but if there would have been more manufacturers on the market, we wouldn't have been essentially and functionally dead in the dirt for a whole year, with simple H and I motor reloads selling for over $50 per unit, not to mention the cost of going to another system.
And that is the point. If an LEMP is not required, then get rid of stupid roadblocks that keep me, joe user, from flying my rockets. My hobby store *still* has yet to recieve any of the AT RMS and SU loads it once carried. Now instead of face to face sales, I, joe user, am forced to go to the internet and hope I can get a decent price, but wait... now I gotta tack on shipping charges! Now I pay more than double to quadruple for what I used to get local. I don't want AT being the virtual "only show in town" any more. I have no particular beef with AT. When I could *get* their motors, I have had satisfactory and happy-making performance. Now, I can't get no satisfaction making sure those changes come about, so we do not go through another drought.
Jerry is ALARMINGLY right.
It is time to get rid of the anti-hobby stipulations. Until that happens, the hobby is as good as dead anyway.
I never said AT labelled un-certified motors. That is your creation. I said that AT was not decertified WRT Address and manufacturing location changes, while JI apparently claims (and others also posted) that TRA did not allow his paperwork to say anything other than his manufacturing business address, further illustrated by that requirement in the reduced version of TRA TMT requirements on the TRA website today. The actions are not uniform, and have apparent bias.
What's with this "legitimacy" hangup? When it's a question of, say, rail buttons or mini altimeters or hardware for strap-on boosters or something, we're glad to support one-man shows, cottage industries, garage operators, and the like... but when it comes to motors, suddenly anything other than an "Actual Established Company" is somehow less than "legitimate"...
FWIW, this is absolutely _not_ related to any "DOT requirements"... the definition of "person" in the DOT codes is plainly written so that it applies to any possible collective entity (i.e., a corporation, parthership, Indian tribe, agent or assignee of same, etc., etc.) as well as to a single individual.
I suspect that this was more like intended to serve as a basis for certain discriminatory policies, while giving the appearance of honoring the "magic distinction" of the Old Time Consumer Rocket Religion: "People don't make motors, they come from Commercial Manufacturers." (Of course, by Model Rocket standards at least, the earliest history of HPR seems to have been a bit "heretical" in this regard anyway, and the distinction somewat artificially imposed at a later date... was Aerotech an "Actual Established Company" per current TRA standards, when Gary first supplied motors to be flown at HPR launches?)
If you buy a rail button, you have a rail button. If you buy an altimeter, you have an altimeter. If you buy a rocket motor case, you have a $60-200 piece of aluminum tubing. Is there a difference between $10 in buttons, $200 for an alt, and $500 in a useless set of aluminum tubes?
I am pretty sure I post more detail than any other manufacturer (by far). About the only exception is marketing strategies, unannounced products, items I have agreed to keep confidential, potential litigation issues, and back room dirt too evil even for me to post and there is plenty. This industry is like a black, evil-death iceberg with only the snowy tip posted to rmr.
That's funny! RMS wasn't even close for the first three years! And that was after errortech was already in business about 10 years! Mostly with Jerry Irvine as its first and largest customer!
Lol. I lived on the bayou for a short while... south of N'awlins, only 500 yards from the ole might Mississippi... which was at times about 3 to 4 feet above the level of the ground I lived on... but held back due to very big earthen dykes. I have taken canoe trips in the low-land swamps, and seen snakes and gators, and spiders with legspans more than 12 inches across. I once *stupidly* picked up what I thought was a ten-speed innertube, near the bank, only to come face to face with a hissing water moccasin... thankfully the reflexes were faster than the brain, as my arm convulsively continued the pickup into a throw that put some distance between he and I... (or she... had no interest in finding out). I then went home to change my shorts and be thankful I was a walking and healthy.
It is obvious, but try to tell that to someone like Ray Dunakin. Every now and then you will get the appearance of softened bias, and even agreement that things should be different. But mostly it appears to me as turf defense. Defending the way things have always been done does nothing to solve the current crisis. Every aspect should always be up for re-evaluation, or the higher end of the hobby will die.
But what do you do when he argues there is not now, and never was a crisis?
Reduces to an argument of opinions... when in fact, I *still* do not see my local vendors having stock above Estes E9, when all carried more prior to the AT fire. Very frustrating indeed.
Count yourself VERY lucky that poison rope didn't bite yah. I wasn't so lucky in '86 when the sucker got my left ankle in my parents back yard down in FL. It hurted like a mofo :( Yet another reason why I hate FL.
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