Time will tell, as from what I was told, Jerry has no ATF permit of any kind.
As a side note: Until the law changes, (hopefully) your best bet is; "purchase regulated HP motors from ATF licensed dealers". Licensed dealers will require a copy of your LEUP prior to delivery and will provide you a copy of theirs, if you ask, especially if you are using the dealer as contingency magazine storage.
Fred
Tesla was a True Genius.
another Altopia poster ... to the killfile with you!
- iz
-40 windchill here in NYC last night
what ever happened to global warming?
- iz
the forecast for tonight: Dark!
- iz
A couple corrections... No LEUP is required at this time for "easy access" motors. Also, most on-site vendors will allow you to buy and fly on-site without a LEUP. You just have to do it under the supervision of the vendor or other LEUP holder.
As a matter of fact, even if we went into another ice age (we're due for one), the tree-huggers are already planning to blame that on global warming too.
Sybil? Are you back???
David Erbas-White
What a maroon.
I think we found the Achilles Heel of Jerry Irvine. Notice how he has shut up about the selling of motors and the lack of an LEMP?
I know you're reading this Jerry. Please don't be the poster child for the loss of high power rocketry in America.
JK
Quibble, quibble, Ray.... Notice I said, "best bet to purchase regulated motors". Some dealers now consider "easy access" regulated and using the "under supervision" options works for some, (I know I have offered and done it for folks). However, having a LEUP cures the problem, provided you can have your own storage magazine or contingency storage is available.
Please cite the law that says a LEMP is required.
Keep in mind that none of 27 CFR 555 applies because explosives are defined in 27 CFR 555.11 as "Explosives. Any chemical compound, mixture, or device, the primary or common purpose of which is to function by explosion." Therefore no cite can come from 27 CFR 555.
Bob
Oh you might be able to beat the charges I'll give you that. But you won't beat the ride. If you manufacture high power rocket motors and sell them in this country without an LEMP you're counting on the good graces of the ATF to not throw you in jail.
This is why Jerry has shut up on here. He builds rocket motors we all know that. But since he has chosen to be wise and clam up I think I'll back off for now.
JK
As Jerry is so found of saying, THIS SHOULD BE IN THE FAQ...(:-)
You'd better explain in _very_ explicit detail what you mean by this, or we're going to consider you a FUD-slinger of the worst type.
As far as I can tell there is no substance to your claims regarding the imminent "loss of high power rocketry" especially since Jerry mostly operates _outside_ that specific field.
-dave w
What are you saying? "It's irrelevent whether one acts legally but absolutely necessary to avoid being hassled by the fuzz?" What Police State do you inhabit? Please don't help turn this country into one by acting like it's there already... if we keep deferring to the cops like they have absolute power beyond the law then they eventually start to believe it.
-dave w
Try carrying a concealed weapon without a permit in a state that allows "traveling". If the cops find the gun it is entirely up to them whether to haul you into jail and then have you prove to the judge you were "traveling".
If someone is making high power rocket motors and then selling them that is in direct violation of the ATF interpretation of the law. The ATF can come in and arrest you. You will then be required to explain to the judge how APCP is not an explosive and the explosives laws don't apply to you.
Only a fool would push the issue until the lawsuit is resolved.
JK
Well, actually, the ATF would be required to explain to the judge and jury, beyond a reasonable doubt, why a rocket motor was _not_ a Propellant Actuated Device, and was therefore subject to "explosives" laws.
That's why the ATF hasn't been running around busting people for "violating their interpretation" - they know if they "pushed the issue" like that they'd either have to make everything stick in a hurry or risk being forced to back off forever if they couldn't: "reasonable doubt", "presumption of innocence", and the "right to speedy trial" would not be on their side in a criminal test case, and they would risk a precedent adverse to their side of the lawsuit.
-dave w
Holding down the fort while jerry is out? :)
Not trying to quibble, just wanting to make clear that people who are unable or unwilling to get a LEUP don't have to give up the hobby. Apparently quite a few folks haven't yet gotten that message.
Unfortunately this cure is not available to all.
Changing to scattered light towards morning.
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