Re: 20mm ammo can as a type IV magazine?

I have to admit that is the "party line", but if you parse the exemption, it is "or" recreational uses. Which explains why rockets have been in a non-enfocement zone despite the (TRA/NAR) turn-ins and (agency) targeting.

ROFL.

I was told this very thing by the agent that allowed me to store 3300 pounds of APCP outside of the magazine (AFTER I asserted my rights) till I showed him the "or" languiage in the exemption. He was dumbfounded his superiors didn't "catch it". I was not dumbfounded in the least. :)

unbelieveable! and he still didn't have the LEUP at the end of the story. Note this disconnect between the DoJ/BATFE and reality

from Safe Explosives Act, Model Rocket Hobbyist Information (3/3/03) at

"Previously, a Federal permit to purchase explosive materials was necessary if a person wished to transport, ship, or receive explosives in interstate commerce. A permit, however, was not necessary if a person acquired and used explosives within his or her State of residence. The new legislation now requires that any person who wishes to transport, ship, cause to be transported, or receive explosive materials in either interstate or intrastate commerce must first obtain a Federal permit issued by ATF. This requirement takes effect May 24, 2003. The new legislation creates a new category of permit -- a "limited permit" -- designed for the intrastate purchaser who buys explosives infrequently and does not intend to transport or use the explosives interstate. This permit will allow the purchaser to receive explosive materials from an in-State explosives licensee or permittee on no more than six (6) occasions during the period of the permit. The permit will allow ATF to better monitor explosives commerce in an effort to enhance homeland security, but is designed to not be overly burdensome to legitimate purchasers. The limited permit is valid for one year and is renewable. ATF intends to set the application fee for the limited permit at $25."

operative phrase is "but is designed to not be overly burdensome"

I would think that creating a LEUP requirement where there was none previously, in light of Tony's experience, qualifies indeed as "overly burdensome"

- iz

Joel Corwith wrote:

well then, this handles the purported LEUP requirement for BP

- iz

re 18USC40.845.a at

"Except in the case of subsections [1] (l), (m), (n), or (o) of section

842 and subsections (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), and (i) of section 844 of this title, this chapter shall not apply to:

(5) commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not to exceed fifty pounds, percussion caps, safety and pyrotechnic fuses, quills, quick and slow matches, and friction primers, intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms as defined in section 921(a)(16) of title 18 of the United States Code, or in antique devices as exempted from the term ''destructive device'' in section 921(a)(4) of title 18 of the United States Code; "

(the excepted subsections relate to criminal acts)

looking more closely at this exemption, I am believe the meaning may be ambiguous. Observe:

parse 1:

-------- commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not to exceed fifty pounds ... intended to be used solely for

sporting, recreational, or ( cultural purposes in antique firearms )

parse 2:

-------- commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not to exceed fifty pounds ... intended to be used solely for

( sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes ) in antique firearms

- iz

Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed wrote:

BUT only if you believe "Jerry Irvine" and know he is NOT in jail!!!

(yet . . . )

Jerry

"Don't forget - you've been able to build and fly those large rockets because *someone else* has been able to discuss, and take action on, the very politics you want to shun. If we can't openly talk about the leadership or policies of our national/regional/local organizations, or the regulatory stuff that comes down the pipe from governments, then we can't do anything to effect change to them.

It's a dirty little fact of life, and you ignore it at your own risk..."

- Len Lekx

"Making the simple complex is commonplace; making the complex simple, awesomely simple - that's creativity."

- Charles Mingus

and the final word (inspired by golf-troll):

"Golfers are willing to pay more than rocketeers to lob small objects so far into the sky they cannot be seen by the unaided eye, then chase after them again and again."

- Tom Emerson

Ambiguous defalts to the defendant.

OR means OR

It is CRITICAL to remember that BOTH NAR and TRA consider 27 CFR

555.141-08 TOO AMBIGUOUS TO DEFEND VIGEROUSLY WITH ACTION AND DEED.

Jerry Irvine

The problem is what one agent says is OK, the next will bounce. And what that agent OKs the first will bounce. And the agent in Iowa won't accept either of the Illinois agents interpretations. As long as we have this different interpretation crap, we can't know what is acceptable for everyone. Thus one of the points of the NAR lawsuit: inconsistent and differing ruleings across the country.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Correct, except it's a 3/8" lock. THe NPRM proposed changing it to a 1/2" lock, but it's not yet in effect, and may never be.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

The best thing we can do for "national security" is restore ALL of our constitutional rights that have been stripped away over the years.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Correct, your local friendly gun and ammo store (not a kmart, a real gun store) will glady sell you BP for all recreational uses.

I shot my 1858 six gun today, smells good. Not even classified as a firearm even and can be shipped ups etc..

Six shooter users don't seem to be out looking for new rules, why do rocketeers always look for new rules ?

significantly

Gosh, I'd only need 4 of these, plus 4 shackles that have holes big enough for them, plus the hardware and time to install them. That's more $$$ than the total contents of my "easy access" magazine has ever held! Absurd!

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

That's what we've got right now...

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

I thought HPR magazine wont accept ads for Jerry's motors ?

(1) ... until the next JBGT comes along and contradicts the first one and cites you for violations. Then the first one comes back and cites you for doing what the second one told you to do... Then goto (1)

:-(

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

100% correct and they can afford to be picky too, NOT!! :)

Just the meglomaniacs: Charles E Rogers Bruce Kelly Mark Bundick Jack Kane Mark Clark Tom Blazanin Dave Crisalli Dane Boles

and others.

Jerry

I thought college was a requirement ?

it would be cheaper to just buy a new type 4 magazine with built in locks

MissileWorks

40" L x 18" W x 18" H @ $250 Merlin Missiles 22" L x 11" W X 14" H @ $194.95 Solar Energy 33" L x 13" W x 11.5" H @ (TBD)

- iz

Bob Kaplow wrote:

Whoops, forgot the other half: Jail all those who have illegally taken them away from us.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!