ROL NEWS--AeroTech Re-releases D21T Single-Use Motors

One 'minor' quibble -- there are some rockets that won't accept a D in an RMS case, but will accept the SU ones. Usually, these are the ones with the plastic back end. For example, I'm a big fan of SkyWinders, but I'd love to put a D in them (suitably beefed up, of course). The RMS with a D13 would be great, but the casing won't fit. I'm a tad reticent about putting a D21 in one of these things, though.

David Erbas-White

In article AxMEe.15$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com, Dave Grayvis at snipped-for-privacy@netscape.net wrote on 7/24/05 7:17 AM:

Short memories. D21s were made with the molded cases beginning in 1993.

Gary

So, was the current case design ever passed thru S&T or TMT for testing? Based on the S&T doc you provided, the motor was last tested by S&T 10 years ago, by a different company (AT) and made in a different state/facility, and was OOP for 4 years! RCS bought the IP of AT in a chapter 11 firesale. If USR had bought these same resources, would S&T and TMT have been as "forgiving"?

Gary.. you got to play by the rules. Send d21's to S&T and have them tested! You avoided it with the Ellis J350's and the "red delay liner", and we all know what happened!

(Gary dances, but keeps stepping on his own feet!)

Let me start off by saying I believe the Ellis J350s should have been decertified -- but based on the field reports of failures, not on anything else.

IIRC, I believe there was a statement from S&T stating that they accepted the transfer of the certifications from Aerotech to RCS. Given that, the rest of your claims are hot air.

The wording of the rules allows for some changes in manufacturing process -- and it's sufficiently clear/unclear that realistically S&T will not 'jump in' unless necessary/requested (for legitimate reasons, not because someone has a bug in their tail).

If they have been using a molded case for years, minor changes in the method/design of the molding won't automatically trigger a recertification -- it really isn't in ANYONE'S interest to do that -- especially since there is no track record of consumer problems in this regard.

David Erbas-White

Neglecting of course the motors first sold at NARAM 12. ;)

The question remains, is the newly Re-released AT D21T measurably different than the AT D21 previously certified?

Alan

Have you talked to S&T about this? If there really is a problem of motors not being tested and certified by S&T, it's their problem and only they can correct it, so you should take it up with them.

Are you saying the Enerjet D21's were molded and not fiberglass/graphite like the E's and F's were?

More correctly,

"is the newly Released RCS D21T measurably different than the AT D21 previously certified?"

Gary - ship it off to S&T or TMT for testing! Why is this an odd concept for a motor vendor? Or is there a reason you don't want to re-test it? (it's been OOP for 4 years and made in a new facility, after all!)

It's simple.. Gary has already sent the motor to vendors and has cash in hand....

In article SvZEe.118988$Qo.12436@fed1read01, David Erbas-White at snipped-for-privacy@arachneering.com wrote on 7/24/05 10:03 PM:

What you said.

Who is this "AZ Woody" anyway?

Gary

Have you talked to S&T about this? If there really is a problem of motors not being tested and certified by S&T, it's their problem and only they can correct it, so you should take it up with them.

The guy standing less than 5' from you at the springfest where Frank was told his motors were beinging decertified. (for cause) and you were right there telling Frank that he wasn't playing by the rules!

Keep dancing Gary. You don't address the issue, But the poster!

The D21 has been OOP for 3+ years, and per the RECORDS YOU PROVIDED has not been tested in 10 years!

Dance, Gary, Dance!

Seems RCS motors get blessed by Gary and not S&T or TMT!

Spend $50 and send the new D21's in for testing! Why are you resisting this? The only reason you resist is that you know something is different, as they are at out out of the 3 year re-test!

Keep dancing Gary.. Can you do the two step?

In article DVZEe.34$ snipped-for-privacy@news.uswest.net, AZ Woody at snipped-for-privacy@here.not.email wrote on 7/24/05 10:29 PM:

The D21s are not yet in production, so they could not have been sent to vendors. Also, I doubt that we have any "cash in hand" for D21s.

The D21s that will be manufactured will be IDENTICAL in design and process to the ones that were last made in Las Vegas. The D21s will be retested in accordance with the NAR's own recertification schedule, as are all AeroTech motors and reloads that are NAR certified.

If you don't like the way the NAR performs its recertifications, I suggest you take it up with them. Recertification is a NAR policy that is subject to schedule and implementation at the sole discretion of the NAR, and is not an NFPA or other legal requirement.

Just who is "AZ Woody" anyway?

Gary

In article Mg_Ee.36$ snipped-for-privacy@news.uswest.net, AZ Woody at snipped-for-privacy@here.not.email wrote on 7/24/05 10:54 PM:

Tell you what, I'll make this a "one-step". Reveal your true identity and I will submit some motors, just for you!

Gary

They informed me they would not be, so buying the assets was undesireable.

Gary got a "step-up" of about $2.4-3.1m in in-hand asset value as a result of the BK and fire sale.

Shrewd.

Teeling says he built them all.

Have him certify them in your name too :)

Uh, Dancing Gary, didn't you yourself, claim that the reason for the Ellis J350 problem was a differnece in the environment (humidity), and how that was differnt from Vegas to Utah too? Seems you mentioned the "monsoon season"! Face it dancing Gary.. There has been a change~

I must have really hit a sore spot here, Dancing Gary! The recert is 3 years, and for a motor OOP for 4, made in a different facility, by a different company, using what may be a different case, seems to require the question:

So why the heck are you announcing the D21 if you don't know that it will pass the cert? You yourself said it must first pass the S&T/TMT requirements (in your post), and being OOP for almost 4 years, seems to retrigger a recert.

Dance, Gary, Dance....

I't not an issue of taking it up with S&T or TMT - it's a vendor that is anouncing the release of a new motor WITHOUT the buy in of S&T or TMT!

Dance Gary, Dance.. This is a JI tactic.....

Spend the $50 and get them certified before announcing them!

(and Gary steps on his own foot again during dance practice!)

I must have really gotten under your skin! Same kind of offer that JI made to me.. "I'll send you a kit, if you stop making me look a fool on newsgroups"

Gary, How's the dancing going?

So the D21's are not available to vendors, and S&T nor TMT bypassed their own "3 year recert" or OOP rule..

So why did you bother with your PR? Seems you wanted to sneak this under the radar!

(need I mention the Ellis J350's or the red delay liner, yet again?)

Gary - you dance so well, you should try out for either "American Idol" or the US congress!

So where is My money, scum bag?