Skippy -vs- DOT

With four grown children, I can relate.

Rocketry, especially organized rocketry is a hobby. A hobby, by it's nature is for the enjoyment of those who do the hobby, first and foremost. All other aspects/purpose of hobbies are secondary to that premise -- just think about it. There is always conflict of purpose between factions within an organization; between the sub organization parts of an organization and the parent organization, such as Prefects and TRA national -- even within prefects there is conflict as to purpose priority. IMO, this will always be the way it is, no matter the hobby organization; rocketry, RC model aircraft, guns, or fireworks etc...

I disagree that a proactive approach has not been taken. If we had not become involved with the NFPA process many years ago we would of been relegated to the status of consumer fireworks and for all practical purposes regulated out of existence, just as consumer fireworks are in most states. However, is there room for improvement, of course

While I may not stand on a stump, I have been involve with rocketry for years, using the platform as a science teaching tool; first with my sons cub scouts and boy scout troupes; later and still, as a adjunct teacher in my wife's junior high science classes. Most recently as a mentor to the Boonsburow High School, Mile High team, sponsored by a NASA grant, (not gloating, but it looks like the team got the second spot in their competition). Our local rocketry group, (MDRA) has sponsored many school rocketry for school projects, providing mentors and launch support facilities. We have also hosted the US Naval academy engineering department, supporting their cadet projects. Most recently we have been approached by John Hopkins Applied Physics Lab and have agreed to support some of their activities. Our group, including myself, are doing our part -- toot toot on the horn.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see that "hell bent perception" as reality. Can we do more?? I'm the wrong person to pose that question to, because as for as I'm concerned, we will never be able to do enough.

Fred

Still no call or message on the answering machine..(;-)

Fred

ONLY if it was me.

We have not heard a peep about Ken Allen's troubles.

What regulation has ever been removed by either NAR or TRA?

Jerry

Tell us exactly what troubles he is having. Be specific I don't want anybody to accuse you of being vague or or incomprehensible, so please use english, not jerry speak.

Uh, skippy, Did you forget the lawsuit?

Uh, Gravy, did you _read_ the lawsuit (or specifically, the judge's "Memorandum Opinion")? This didn't "remove" any regulations, it simply confirmed that there had been an exemption all along.

And did anyone notice that it was shortly after the "Status Hearing" in the NAR/TRA vs. BATF CASE that the anon-posters really started in sniping at Jerry over the DOT issues, even though it was some weeks previously that the final action (a REDUCTION of penalty on appeal) had gone down on a case that had been initially adjudicated a long time ago: this was evidently no new news, if anyone had cared to look it up in the first place...

A perfect example of why I take most of the stories people tell about each other with a grain of salt... especially the true ones! I ask "why is this piece of the story being told in such a way at _this_ time"?

-dave w

Have you ever heard of the legal premise, "fruit of the poisonous tree"? Your paying for Ken's fruit from your poisonous tree. Make the best deal you can with DOT, pay up, and move on.

Fred

So was TRA/NAR, and just about everyone else in the hobby. Jerry didn't do anything to win that exemption back from the ATF.

That in no way disuades Fred Wallace from making the inference (or outright statement) of ATF criminality.

The rules are the rules. We can work to get them changed but in the mean time we must follow them or pay the consequences.

Those technicalities can either help or hurt you but the government sure does pay a lot of attention to them.

Change?

ATF does not require LEMP NFPA-1127 does not requireLEMP.

Stroke of the pen at NAR or TRA solves it.

Stroke of the pen.

Jerry

I agree with pretty much everything you say. I f you notice, I used the word "can" not a definitive word such as "will".

Fred

How can I debate such logic, got me..

Fred

What does the illegal shipping issue have to do with ATF regulations regarding exempt explosives.

On what grounds would they have criminal prosecution.

Joel. phx

Nothing, two seperate issues..

Depending on the resolution of the PAD issue, offering fo sale and manufacture of class 1 explosives, without an ATF permit for starters..

Fred

You may be quite right jerry.. I'll leave you with the decision to become a test case, I am just a low level consumer and ex'er..

Fred

Woody, please learn to read. Here, I'll reduce the number of words.

Call the ATF (the -PHONE NUMBER- is on that website) and ask if a if a manufacturing permit is required for commercial model rocket (and hpr) propellant.

I don't care, I'm not a manufacturer nor am I {without the facts} accusing a manufacturer of requiring one.

I'm tired of the BS bantering of people who don't know and won't check the facts.

Joel. phx

agree