USR vs Aerotech

I'm new to rocketry. I am looking to purchase a motor system and I am very confused. The Aerotech hardware and motors seem to be a lot more expensive then USR motors on ROL auctions. Is there a reason for this? Am I getting myself in trouble if I purchase the USR hardware? Will it work with Aerotech reloads? Does anyone know why the cost difference is so much? If I purchase Aerotech am I getting into trouble because they are going bankrupt?
Bayourat

The Simple answer: USR motors are no longer recognized by either national Rocket clubs: Tripoli (http://www.tripoli.org /) or the NAR (http://www.nar.org /) which means that if you ever go to a sanctioned launch you will not be able to fly your USR motors.
JD
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much?

wrote:
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That's a very good question. To state a different way
Is the certification issued by TRA/NAR for the hardware, propellant load, or both?
Careful, if it includes the hardware, how does Dr. Rocket hardware fit into AT certifications?
Bob

baDBob wrote:
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The certification submission from the manufacturer specifies the hardware that the reloads are to be assembled in. The "Aerotech" and "Dr. Rocket" branded hardware components are made in the same machine shop (the only difference is in the final finish and labeling method), and are considered perfectly equivalent and interchangeable, even by Aerotech and TMT themselves.
-dave w

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:54:42 -0800, David Weinshenker
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OK, let's see now... AT needs money...hmmmmm
How about I contract with AT to make me a line of single use motors in the range of F25, F50, G40 and G80. To be labeled under my small business.
Since "the only difference is in the final finish and labeling method" would they not be certified/certifiable by me?
As the contractor, I am not responsible for any manufacturing permits, shipping permits, etc.
Bob

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NAR currently allows AT to do that for PML, RV and even USR when Gary will cooperate.

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Yup. All the USR motors that ever were NAR certified were motors made by AT and relabeled. ANd ditto of the NCR "North Coasters" of the same era.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html

baDBob wrote:
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I believe PML was doing exactly that (with 3 of the four specific types they mentioned, as a matter of fact), and selling them under the "PML Thrusters" brand.
-dave w

Does PML have a LEMP and EX numbers in the name/address of PML?
If not the please exxplain what the hell is the difference between this and the ACS/JI situation?
PD
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PhilipD wrote:
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PML doesn't need a LEMP, as they are not the manufacturer. They are simply dealing motors made by Aerotech (and placing their own label on them). The motors have EX numbers, obtained by Aerotech.
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I see no correlation between the two situations. Aerotech is an operational company that will stand behind its products. Aerotech sumbitted the motors that PML is selling for TRA/NAR certification. Aerotech has all appropriate licenses and PML makes no secret of where they get their motors. PML is not telling us to ignore that man behind the curtain.
- JT

Jeff Taylor wrote:
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Hmmm... so US Rockets doesn't need a LEMP, as they are not the manufacturer. They are simply dealing motors made for them by ACS and placing their own label on them. The propellant in those motors has either an EX number (or an acknowledgement of the lack of "explosive" hazard requiring same, depending on size), obtained by ACS.
Seems like a perfectly parallel situation to me...
-dave w

David Weinshenker wrote:
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The difference is that in PML's case, the manufacturer (ie Aerotech) presented the motors for certification, not PML, and in doing so also presented their LEMP, etc... If ACS (which I thought didn't exist any longer) were to send motors in for certification, and show their licenses, etc. then JI, USR, or anyone else could stick their labels on them and sell them. It's simple, the certifying authority (TRA, NAR, or CAR) needs to be in direct contact with the manufacturer. I can't imagine why a proper manufacturer would refuse to do this, as it would then allow them to make money.
- JT

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You should say "is Aerotech".
TMT asks new manufacturers to GET PERMISSION from Aerotech before they will accept motors for cert!!!!!!!!!
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Given the documentation how can you possibly say they are not in direct contact?
Because you are a moron? Because you are a person of low intelligence? Because you cannot read? Because you are a mindless TRA automaton?
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AMW got AT approval to submit motors?
Ellis got AT aproval to submit motors?
Can you back this up?
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html

kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:
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Yes.

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Please do so...
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html

kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:
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I did in private channels. The issue is "being worked" whatever that means.

Jerry Irvine wrote:
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You said right here YOU could back this up. Now it seems you're backing down.

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These days a LOT of what you think of as "name brand" products are made just this way, by whatever off shore shop bids lowest for this months order. Power tools, electronics, appliances, etc. are all made in this way.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html

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ACS propellant was *not* the same as USR propellant. USR also had several different propellants, I don't see several EX numbers.
BTW, ACS motors had the lowest reliability of any manufacturer I've seen. With the exception of L911 and H170, they CATO'd well over 50% of the time.
Tom