Ebay problem-you gus got to read-Talk with Sikorsky Att. Mr. Pasulka

Quite frankly it looks like it's an issue of principle. There's nothing more deadly to a situation than the moment someone decides "it's a matter of principle." At that moment it isn't unusual for common sense and reason to exit together.

Assuming that total sales of scale models bearing a manufacturer's name number one million units per year. That's a total of $ 250,000 in additional revenue if they take a quarter per unit. I have no idea what the volume of scale model production and sales is worldwide, but the amount to be gained via royalties is hardly noteworthy. Then again, neither is the extra quarter for a ten dollar model.

Does anyone know what the market volume might be?

Cheers!!!

BobbyG

I suspect you are right about this being another way for companies to screw consumers. Er.. I mean of course pursue legitimate business interests and maintain standards of principle. Principle as worthy as that of the Catholic Church's one time sale of pardons (thus leading to a wide range of religious wars).

I will say, it is an incredibly sad comment on Sikorsky. I really wonder how fast the founder is spinning in his grave. I somehow doubt he would support such a low-life corporate attitude.

I wonder, if this is taken to an extreme....

Two car guys are discussing a car, they use verbal and hand motions to describe a Ford Model T (or whatever), will they have to pay penalties?

More practically. As I recall, for real trademark violations, there must be substantive evidence that using the same/similar symbol or name must cause others confusion as to what is actually being sold.

If that is essentially correct, I doubt any rational person could ever be confused with the sale of a toy/model vs. a real helicopter etc.

Of course, the time, money and effort of court cases often stops even legitimate activities.

Anyone think a letter campaign would help?

Nope. It sure didn't stop the wolfpack at GM or Chrysler from beating up the car model companies. They just don't care if you threaten to never buy one of their junkers again. There just aren't enough of us around to make a dent.

Bill Banaszak

Perhaps the kit manufacturers should charge Sikorsky for the excellent publicity they have provided the company for years. Many of the people who are making the billion dollar decisions built these models.

Let's see what we can do to get Mr. Pasulka either promoted or fired. He doesn't know squat about good press.

My opinion is that I don't need Sikorsky helicopters in my collection any more.

Bill Banaszak

shades of AMT's beech staggerwing?

I think Bell should get the DoD contracts from now on.

WmB

To reply, get the HECK out of there snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net

Promoted might be the ticket - he won't be able to do near as much damage there..... If we fire him, he might just start all over again at Bell/Textron - how many Hueys and Cobras do YOU have in your stash?

RobG (the Aussie one)

For further reading on corporate legal defense success:

A cautionary brochure for program managers and acquisition types.

Sigh...

Maybe they need all the money they can get, since they don't seem to be able to sell the S-92 to anyone...

Matt

Write the guy back and ask him if he's ever heard of the doctrine of laches. Then ask him how he feels about modelers starting a class action in federal court against Sikorsky and him personally for restraint of trade for attempting to assert alleged rights that have lapsed due to willful inattention. While you're at it, remind him that Sikorsky is using a comic book company's service mark or trademark with Blackhawk, and they probably owe the publisher a fortune for infringement.

This is almost bad enough to chase me back into the practice of law. Almost.

Mark Schynert

Yeah, what he said! ;-)

OK... what's the skinny on this doctrine of laches? The rest I got, especially the Blackhawk reference.

WmB

To reply, get the HECK out of there snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net

Another way to aproach this matter is to contact the Sikorsky Public Relations Department and ask for the Director and ask his comments on a story being made available that states Sikorsky's position as related in Mr. Pasulka's comments being made available to the public press.

Bad PR is worse than no PR at all.

Nat Richards

Try telling that to Michael Jackson right about now...

Both sad and frustrating on several levels.

This sounds like history books in the not-to-distant future will talk about Abraham Lincoln's xareer in the militia as the Blackhawk?© War.

This is 100% pure Bulls__t. Time to execute the lawyers.

-- John ___ __[xxx]__ (o - ) --------o00o--(_)--o00o-------

The history of things that didn't happen has never been written - Henry Kissinger

ROTFLMAO!!! THat reminds me of an ad I saw, years ago done up by Stan Freeburg. The item being pushed was Jeno's Pizza Rolls, a small pizza burrito that was sold frozen. Anyway, the ad was a parody of a previous Lark cigarette commercial, where a couple of people on the back of a flat-bed truck were tossing out samples of the pizza rolls to anyone thawanted them (and of course, everyone did), all to the tune of the "William Tell Overture" (just as the earlier Lark commercial passed out free packs of cigarettes to the same music) The commercial ends with a guy in a dark suit (a lawyer?) stopping them and declaring; "I want to talk to you about your theme music." as he pulls out a pack of Larks and starts to light one up. Then a gloved hand taps him on the shoulder and you see the Lone Ranger (Clayton Moore) and Tonto (Jay Silverheels). The Lone Ranger looks at him and says; "Funny, I wanted to talk to YOU about the same thing!" Thanks for the memory.

-- John ___ __[xxx]__ (o - ) --------o00o--(_)--o00o-------

The history of things that didn't happen has never been written - Henry Kissinger

The problem of intellectual property of the full scale manufacturer vs. the model industry is not just limited to Sikorsky or car models. I also build model trains and right now the Union Pacific RR is demanding a license fee for all models marked for the UP or any of the railroads it has gobbled up in mergers.

In the early 1950's, the Santa Fe and New York Central RR's actually PAID the Lionel company to place their railroad names on Lionel's new F-3 diesel model. It was a great marketing ploy as it got the Santa Fe and New York Central into homes all across America.

I wish the MBA's and Lawyers that run the major manufacturers would come to some common sense and see that instead of a revenue it is actually free advertising.

Gene DiGennaro Baltimore,Md.

As far as your case goes, it should only matter if they did when the kit was produced. In the old days, sometimes permission was enough.

Years? Perhaps they need better lawyers. Revell is paying other AC companies.

As far as you- its a bummer they are taking it out on you. Thank you for sharing it with us.

As far as the bigger picture- Its here guyz. Logos and representations of images and products has exploded in the past few years. The trademark/copyright business is *never* going to be relaxed or back down. Given tooling costs and declining market, it would be extremely foolish for anyone these days to design and tool a subject without permission in hand. Copyright entitles the owner to decide if, where, when and how copys of their work may be used. I don't think it unfair those responsible for the subjects of our affection to be rewarded. They could simply say no and sic the lawyers on the model companies, and that would cause us far more grief.

Many have said the model companies won't make kits if they have to pay royalties. This is flawed in two ways. First- many have been paying them. Second- ultimately they don't pay it, we do. They need only pick subjects that offer a reasonalble chance of success, which is their goal even without royalties. Given the nature of their business, forming good business relationships should be desirable for long term viability.

12-25 cents a kit? Hell, R-M monogram raised their prices 30% over two years a few years ago, and they are still a great deal. I pay more than that on a kit in local option sales tax. Someone has joked model paint is $500 a gallon when bought in the tiny jars. I'm not going to say its absurd. Royalities insure stability, reduces the risk of something being halted after the big bucks are spent on tooling, and often results in cooperation and a better "approved" product.

Tom