Latest UP madness

UP madness: when will it stop

>
> I received notice from my publisher today that the
> UP has
> decided (as of Jan. 1st) to take this trademark
> stupidity one step
> further and apply it to all future books,
> publications and even to
> railroad artwork.
>
> As a result I was told that although my next book is
> on the T&NO
> (which officially ceased to exist in the early
> 1960's) that we
> cannot use any SP logos anywhere in the publication
> other than
> those on equipment in photos. This means that no SP
> logo will
> be allowed in this historic book featuring the T&L
> lines of the SP!
>
> In addition we can not use any T&NO timetable, menu,
> etc. if it
> displays a SP logo although these public relation
> items were
> openly handed out for free by the T&NO during the
> 1940's,
> 1950's and 1960's.
>
> The same goes for the Katy book. No MKT logos can be
> used.
> Period.
>
> And now for the next step. We also can no longer use
> any of
> John Winfield's artwork on the cover of any book(s)
> if it shows a
> train, engine or equipment displaying any of these
> trademarked
> logos. Now although this would have no bearing on
> the
> proposed artwork on the T&NO book, it will keep me
> from
> commissioning John do a painting of the TEXAS
> SPECIAL for
> use on the cover of the Katy book.
>
> In addition to this (and I haven't had a chance to
> tell John this
> yet), John will no longer be allowed to run and sell
> prints of any
> UP related items. This madness will also apply to
> original
> commissioned works of art if they use or show any of
> these
> trademarked logos.
>
> Now please keep in mind that the UP has personally
> stepped up
> in the past and commissioned and or purchased
> several of
> John's paintings through the years, several of which
> currently
> hang in their corporate offices in Omaha.
>
> Also keep in mind that two years ago the UP opened
> up their
> own photo archives and supplied Morning Sun with
> almost 250
> photos of SP trains for a book on the SP. These same
> rules
> were not inforced at that time and the UP openly
> encouraged
> publishing companies like these to feature books on
> the UP and
> its merger partners.
>
> I ask everyone to take a few minutes and think over
> what is
> transpiring here. This is nothing more than
> corporate greed or
> legal stupidity on a unprecedented scale and
> something
> seriously needs to be done. I encourage everyone who
> feels that
> this is wrong to contact the UP, any of their
> shippers, etc. and
> voice their opposition to this madness.
________________________________________________________-
I guess all publications would include model railroad magazines that
have pictures of anything UP deems theirs. This would seem to indicate that
a photo of a "real" UP car would be ok but anything else would not.
Anything else would seem to me to include models. I mean if they are saying
you can have artwork then models would be artwork in the loose sense of the
word.
Reply to
Jon Miller
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Just live with it. I told you, toy trains would be bye bye for those roads.
Jerry
Reply to
Jerry
We modelers have no standing to sue, but book publishers (works of art), magazines (free press), and manufacturers (marks in the public domain?) have standing. UP does not care about negative press to the small MR community and the rest of the world does not care.
So, you BUSINESSES out there, gather together and sue UP for public domain rights to (especially) fallen flag symbols, the right to paint whatever you want, and the right to publish articles about UP. If you don't do it, no one else can. It seems as if UP is depending upon the cost of litigation to prevent any effective protest.
I suspect that the security guards missing from railroad yards to prevent tagging have been replaced by lawyers.
Ed.
in article snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com, Jerry at snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote on 1/13/04 6:43 AM:
Reply to
Edward A. Oates
It has been suggested to some magazine editors/owners and it might happen. The pictures and everything as before but the UP logo (only) removed by computer with just a white blank there. A note in the mag telling why. If all the mags would get together and do it!
Reply to
Jon Miller
UP SUCKS. Why anybody would want to buy their garbage is a mystery. Of course, here, everyone will just say bend over and take it so don't expect much help or sympathy.
The train community must be French the way it is acting.
Reply to
MrRathburne
Spoken like a true fascist.
Reply to
Steve Caple
You are an idiot.
Reply to
Railfan
There is one guy at the Milwaukee WISE Division shows with cars letter C&NW, but it's Calhoun & North Western. If UP wins with the predecessor roads, I just might buy some of those cars and not re-letter them.
Jay CNS&M North Shore Line - "First and fastest"
Reply to
JCunington
Are you a UP gestapo stooge or what?
Reply to
MrRathburne
Salvé "Jon Miller" skrev i meddelandet news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com...
-snip-
I am curious, just how much do the board of UP realise the amount of negative publicity they re getting? And apart from this group, how much ha it been discussed in teh railway press? prototype and model? Beowulf
Reply to
Beowulf
Howdy;
What I am wondering is this: Did UP say that under no circumstances is the UP logo to be used, or did they say "For X dollars we will give you a license to use our logo in your book."
If the former statement is the true one, then shame on UP. If the latter statement is true, then shame on you for trying to get around paying UP what is rightfully theirs.
Just a thought.
Dan Harriman Orange, Texas
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Jerry) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:
Reply to
Dan
This sounds like it would fall under fair use rights. Depending on what type of book it is, I don't think UP can dictate how you can use their logo. You obviously can't use it in advertising, but you could use it for purposes of commentary as in a historical book. This is the entire point of the fair use clause of copyright law.
I would consult a lawyer and see what he/she thinks about the issue. Many cases such as this have ended up going to trial and fair use rights always win. I mean it's part of copyright law; I often wonder when I see cases like this how copyright holders fail so utterly to understand what's printed right there in black and white. If they're trying to enforce their copyrights, you'd think they would at least bother reading the laws they're citing. Copyright law does *not* give companies rights to dictate whatever they want with their logos or other trademarks - in fact it *specifically denies* them legal remedies in situations like this.
But don't take my word for it. Go explain the situation to a lawyer and see what his or her opinion is. Obviously UP is a big company and if they threaten you with legal action (even knowing they would almost surely lose) you might not want to get involved in that.
// Jeff Williams // snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com
Reply to
Jeff Williams
Always count on you for an intelligent comment. I said you were going to pay it and find out the UP would stop a lot of things in the railroad community. I am going to prove to be right. If that makes me a fascist, so be it. Jerry
Reply to
Jerry
I have killfiled MrRathburne but I am not surprised at his response. He must be complaining because the model rail group is not suing the UP or something like that. He is not smart enough to realize that the model rail group is not important to the UP. The UP has not stopped publishment of books with pictures of actual UP equipment. You just can't use the logo. Publish the book without it or, I am sure, you can get an agreement from UP to use the logo with approval and a fee. It is the new way of railroading people. Other roads will follow suit. I am not saying it is good or bad, just that you all better get used to it. Jerry
Reply to
Jerry
No, it's your respect only for the price of things (despite their pedestrian esthetics) and your toadying attitude toward the authority of those with more wealth and power than you that makes you a prototypical fascist.
Or maybe just a "Lionel home" as someone here recently quoted a railroad employee.
Hey - Log Cabin Lionel Lovers, that's the ticket!!
Reply to
Steve Caple
... is a sharpened peeler pole up the ass. Where is Vlad the Impaler when we really need him? Vlad: Off to Omaha!
Reply to
Steve Caple
There's your brownshirt streak - or was it brown shorts? -- coming out again, Jerry.
Reply to
Steve Caple
On 1/13/04 10:09 PM, in article snipped-for-privacy@post>> MrRathburne wrote:
I find it interesting that he's OK with UP's actions, but not Horizon's takeover of Athearn.
Reply to
Brian Paul Ehni
The tiny number of whiners are vastly outnumbered by those who love the steam program etc. I will be following the UP 3985 in a couple of weeks so I'll find out first hand. I have no reason to doubt that what I'll see is hundreds and hundreds of UP fans at most stops, as always.
I've been following UP oriented message boards as well as hard core railfan boards. I haven't even seen the topic come up except once or twice last fall. Nobody really cares if people who have eight hundred bucks to spend on a toy train has to pay another twenty bucks for it. But then again, these are mostly folks with a sense of perspective. They don't whine about having to pay a little extra to get a jacket with the K.C. Chiefs logo on it or the St. Louis Cardinals either.
Kent in SD
Reply to
Two23
Someone writes an opinion that you don't agree with, and you post shit like this? Real nice, Steve.
Reply to
Mark Mathu

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