Second engine?

The Lister A and B engines are pretty much the same unit, with bigger cylinder and piston on the B to give higher output.

The only caveat is the bearings, as they were die-cast and broached, and spares are now very few and far between, other than that they are a nice engine, and info is available for both in the same Lister book.

All water-cooled engines are worth playing with, I don't go a lot on air-cooled stuff personally, and that brings along a lot of Petter engines like the AV1 and AV2, PHW1, PHW2, B1, B2 and so on. They are relatively simple mechanically but nice enough technically to be interesting.

All of these with the exception of the B series were available in air-cooled versions (AVA1, AVA1, PH1, PH2) so be careful when looking for them.

There is a B2 that I know of down on the Somerset flats around J22 on the M5, and a lot of scrap yards have the languishing on the dumps.

Small Rustons can be fun, there are a range of heavy but "run for ever" diesels in 1 and 2 cylinder versions, mostly water cooled by there were air-cooled sets as well.

Getting bigger, the Lister CD and CE diesels, the CS 3/1 and 5/1 and 10/2 are very popular but heavy to drag around. Spares are plentiful and they are pretty bullet-proof when running. The CD is the single, CE is twin, most of these twin diesels are over half a ton, so watch your towing capacity.

All of the published Lister data sheets from the factory are on our web pages at:

I have a set of these that are copied and encapsulated/laminated that I keep by the desk for reference.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Engine pages for preservation info:

I've realised that after this engine I won't have much time for another one so I want to go for something a bit more interesting. I really like the Amanco hired man range, or some of the open crank horizontal rustons. Any horizontal open crank would be good!

The rub is that prices vary wildly between makes and models, particularly if the one you want is a sought-after engine.

Most of the Ruston & Hornsby open-crank engines fetch a premium price these days, the little Bamford 'Tulip Top' ditto, and there are plenty of others.

The twin sideshaft Crossleys are quite nice and also an interesting engine, they tend to be a bit heavy but do come in a range of sizes.

I'm not that keen on the Amanco range personally, but beauty is in the eye of the behloder as they say...

Kind regards,

Peter

Peter Forbes Prepair Ltd Luton, UK email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk home: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk

When I first became interested in stationary engines (at an early age in the late 1960's / early 70's), to my mind they had to be open crank, hopper cooled, hit-and-miss with LT ignition and preferably red.

I never have owned an Amanco and my tastes have now broadened somewhat, but I still think they are THE classic range of farm engines, built down to a price but entirely fit for purpose.

Some engines are nice to be with and run, some engines are just nice to look at and own. Very few are both at the same time.

Some spark a curiosity that can be quite insatiable, others offer no interest at all mechanically although quite interesting visually.

One engine that caught my fancy was the Ransomes Wizard, but PTFE's account of its restoration etc put me off the thing for good!!

Looking at a biggish Petter with Roly today, they are quite interesting in that Petters ploughed their own furrow in the design of the two-strokes, followed by many copies, or was it the other way round ? :-)) But once you have seen one running, got the spots etc etc., you have seen them all.

I can't think of any engine that I would happily buy now, other than a big Bolinder, for they are the epitome of the hot-bulb engine of their day and lovely to play with.

I have the 1ZHR R&H as a main engine, plus Listers, a Petter AV1, the Cub flat twins, the Stuart H2M and the twin Bolinder we got from Spain last year etc., to add anything to that lot would take a bit of persuading.

Love the expression "What really floats your boat then ?" :-))

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Engine pages for preservation info:

So what would you recommend to me then, I like the Amanco because they sound good, I like the popping and all the clicky noises, plus I think they are really nice to look at when done in a gloss red with the proper transfers etc. Although i'm afraid that I won't have the money for even a class 4 Amanco if I can find one. I wasn't looking to spend more than 200-250, although it depends what mood i'm in at the time heheh, silly bidding here we come!

Regards Chris

Chris, I would love an amanco but the bank manager, wife, is hard to convince so I go for interesting enclosed cranks not so dear and just as interesting. If you buy an open crank for 200-250 youve got a lot of work to do to it. An engine is only half the problem, I believe you need something for it to do that is of interest to you and the public, you can pay 150 - 200 for a good pump or dynamo to drive. If you set youre sights to high it will only bring disappointment.

Martin P

Chris Crocker - White wrote:

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May the force be with you, because if she isn't you're on a hiding to nothing.

Do I assume that I have a collection of mediocre engines then :-))

Martin P :-((

Peter A Forbes wrote:

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May the force be with you, because if she isn't you're on a hiding to nothing.

I think we should always set our sights high, we may not always get what we want, but that is better than taking second best.

OTOH, if setting our sights too high means we never actually get anything, then that is equally as bad... :-))

I think that having a collection of 'mediocre' engines is almost as bad as having none. You have to want something out of the ordinary to make the hobby work and get the kind of interest in the engine from others that makes it all so much fun.

Half of the fun of the hobby for me is the contacts with other engine nutters, most of whom I am actually still on speaking terms with :-))

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Engine pages for preservation info:

I quite liked the Bradford actually, open-crank or not. Don't forget, I have the advantage of a large van and trailer, something that is almost priceless when collecting (or delivering!) engines.

Diesels, when properly loaded and maintained are no worse than most of the engines on the rallyfield, in fact probably a sight cleaner and you can't poison yourself with the exhaust fumes, although the particulates will get you in the end!

The pricing thing I have some sympathy with, it's just something that has evolved with time. Expensive engines were 'always' open crank types, regardless of whether they were any good or not. It's a bit of a myth in some respects, as the 1ZHR is a 1964 engine, but most people seeing it for the first time will guess at 1930 something.

Same as vertical Blackstones I suppose, until Len Gilling sorted his out properly, not many people would have shown much interest as it wasn't open crank.

Why are Tulip Top Bamfords so expensive?

Peter

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Peter, You may have gathered that most of my comments have been a little tongue in cheek hence the smiley's but to a degree there is an element of seriousness regarding pricing etc. Maybe if I gave up collecting Stoves and got rid of my two classic cars and .......... God i'd be bored silly, i'll be happy with what I have got and dream of one day :-))

Martin P

Peter A Forbes wrote:

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May the force be with you, because if she isn't you're on a hiding to nothing.

This is an interesting thread. I started off where we all do. Firstly, in the 1970's, I bought an Amanco Chore Boy, a Lister A, a Villiers WXII (x3) and a little OHV Lyons engine. Then I stopped as I knew no one else who was interested and vintage racing bikes were a LOT more fun!

Typical of me, I kept them as they were not eating and I had the space & so still had them when the bait dropped in the water again a couple of years ago.

Big bite this time! Because of SE magazine and the Internet, I have LOTS of interesting people to talk to and spasmodic fun chasing up Useful Spares and Interesting Devices ( family jargon for rusty junk and iron toys!).

But I find my interests have evolved quite dramatically over the last couple of years and the Lister A that I'd bought to do up was the first to go. Now the Wolseley's that I bought derelict and restored to Class 2, the very original Lister D that is unusual in that it is on it's original trolley are either gone or advertised and the Amanco will follow shortly, I suspect. I'm really getting into fifty-sixty year old stuff, especially if it has an aircraft dimension, a WD connection and/or is unusual. I just love aircraft stuff as it is S-o-o-o well made.

The 1923 Crossley 1075 is a different kettle of fish and its high quality workmanship attracts me still. I often run it in the workshop just to hear it go. A Ruston Hornsby 6 or 7 IP etc would make me leap to my feet too, particularly one in very good original condition.

So, anyone bored with their Ruston and fancy an Amanco? I might even throw in a Lister D for good measure ;o))

Regards,

Kim Siddorn.

I've heard that said about other things and don't think its true for them either :-) regards

I'm glad i've started such a good thread, really good reading!

As someone said, (sorry can't remember who!) it's good to have a nice collection with some unusual engines in, this is what I want to achieve. I first said I liked the Lister A, but looking through my collection of SE magazine I realised they were too common. There was a Ruston vertical on Ebay the other day, looked class 3/4, I would've got this, simply because I hadn't noticed any when looking through the mags, but I thought it was rather overpriced at £100, so I didn't.

Did Bamford do any vertical enclosed crank engines?

Regards Chris

Yes, I did realise... :-))

If I didn't have the machine tools and other items to think about (new roof for the house this year...) I also could think about something else, but a bit of diversity is not a bad thing at our age (I think you're younger than me actually)

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Engine pages for preservation info:

Yup, I have just sold my 3hp EG3 vertical, the Bamfords have a nice feature which is a hinged crankcase, enabling the innards to be inspected at will without major stripping or even draining the oil.

I have a smaller EG1 still available if you'd like to get in touch, it is almost completely restored, just needs the bits bolting back onto the engine (exhaust, carb fuel tank) and is a running engine,

I think we have a copy of the manual for it as well.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Engine pages for preservation info:

I was doing a TV interview the other day and the presenter asked me for a closing statement that would sum up what we try to achieve in re-enactment. It must be said I'm used to this sort of thing, but I was proud of this, extempore as it was ;o))

"If we see what they saw, hear what they heard and feel what they felt - if we can wear their shoes and tread where they trod - then, we may trace their footprints in time."

I think it applies to us oily fingered people, too - a bit long to put over the window of a camper, but you might get it down the side ;o))

Anyone that can get Radio Bristol and gives a rodents bottom, I'm on next Tuesday at 10.15am (ish)

Regards,

Kim Siddorn.

It is a good thread isn't it - and actually staying on topic!

If you are collecting for yourself rather than to impress others or compete with the many other attractions at most rallies, then you need to work out what attracts and pleases you - sight and sound, engineering oddity, rarity, antiquity, etc etc. Then go to a few sales like the Sodbury Sort-Out or local equivalent and see what 'calls to you' (Kim Siddorn phrase).

Ah yes, the sound - the purr of a well silenced Stuart twin, the curiously blurred note of flat twins, the irregular galloping horse gait of a vee twin, the hollow bellow of the giant Vickers-Petter, the ringing clang of a big single semi-Diesel pumping crude on full chat, a Rootes blowered vee eight accelerating hard and a 1935 racing Mercedes when the switchable blower cuts in.

But set them all aside and forget them when a Merlin engined fighter flies by at 500 feet!

And the surprises for the nose. The sweetish smell of TVO, of Gunk on a hot engine, the steam-and-oil odour of hot fog engines and the unmistakable smell of ancient petrol.

Sort-Out or local equivalent and see what 'calls to you' (Kim Siddorn phrase).

"Calls to you"? Oh yes, we all know the moment when the eye lights upon the one thing out of perhaps hundreds of bits of rusty junk and shouts "BUY ME!! BUY ME!! - Go one, you know you want to. I'm only a little ........... (fill in item of choice), you can hide me/explain me/sneak me in when she's at her mothers. Go on, it's only money ..........."

I'm afraid they calls to me real loud, sometimes ;o))

Regards,

Kim Siddorn.