Slightly OT. Setting a standard.

Gentlemen. It is apparent from the subsequent threads to my original posting that I was very much in the minority with regards to my concerns regarding totally OT postings on the newsgroup. I simply used my right as in a democratic society to "voice" my thoughts. If everyone else is happy then so be it.

Regards

John Rogers

Reply to
John Rogers
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"John Rogers" wrote (snip):-

That's what it's all about and you initiated quite an interesting (if slightly OT, as correctly stated in subject) debate!

Now, anybody got anything interesting to say about engines?

Reply to
Nick Highfield

Absolutely John, and as usual on this NG, it was a pleasant, well mannered exchange of views. What a haven from the maelstrom outside!

Regards,

Kim Siddorn

Reply to
J K Siddorn

Hang on a moment! I think there may be a few more opinions on the way before any majority has been won!!

My own personal thoughts are, I could live without the OT posts, but as long as they are a SMALL part of the group, its okay. I sometimes join in on them and post, but more often ignore them unless they are at least vaguely related to something I am interested in. I DON?T want this group to go the way of the US ATIS list - ie 90% rubbish!

I have to agree that they do put posters off though, because I know people who don?t post for that very reason!

What I think has to be realised, is that the people who post to this group, would probably disagree that OT are bad, mainly because if they did not, they would no doubt not be posting!

I am very sad to say, there are many people who find this group a bit of a joke sadly (presumably not the posters though!). I doubt that we could ever change their minds, but the OT posts do not do much to help convince them, that this is a good way to communicate on Stationary Engines.

As I have said before, there are 2 sides to SE movement, the hobby people and the more serious preservationists. There is room for both here, but only if we keep the balance right. Looking at my screen, around 12 of the 25 subjects are OT?? I would rather see that figure down a touch personally, but then that?s just my opinion of course!

Take a look at a group like the 'Traction-Talk' pages, very little OT and very diverse posts from the entry level to some really in depth stuff.

Regards

Chris Bedo Kent UK

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Reply to
Chris Bedo

"Chris Bedo" wrote (snip):-

Yes it is something of a circular argument.

Why?

Can't think of a better one. Even without the OT stuff you'd never get this volume of traffic through letters to SEM and if it were all done by person-to-person emails it wouldn't be available for the edification of us all.

Is there really a difference except in scale and resources? 'Wild' Billy Childish said that he hoped never to be considered a professional in anything he did as that would imply he was doing it for the mortguage rather than the love of it.

You're probably right there, 50% is rather a high level of OT posts. But there is no denying that one way or another this NG is alive and well.

BTW. Note you post through mailgate, Is this providing a reliable service again? There are a few people I know who cannot set up a news account or whose service providers do not carry this NG and currently work through Google, who would definitely benefit if this is the case.

Reply to
Nick Highfield

George,

I have to say, that I disagree with your argument. See my comments below, it may not be broken in our eyes, but if we want to keep moving forward it is worth considering these things. As I say, people are aware of this group, but do not post for a reason.... John is just putting forward a theory as to why. Trying to second guess a motive for Johns post does nothing to assist the argument in any way, and may in fact put people who agree with what he says off from posting.

Regards

Chris Bedo Kent UK

Reply to
Chris Bedo

Like you, I am sad to hear people say that Chris, and a little nettled. It sounds like they might be takers, not givers.

This is not an entertainment or education service, it is an open all hours, all are welcome, talking shop.

You don't pay a licence fee to access the content, and it doesn't get paid for out of your taxes. Its content is only as good as those who contribute. It does get my goat when those who make no effort , stand breaking wind on the sidelines and say, "Bloody 'ell, the game's sh*te innit". Ther are some months when I wonder why I bothered with SEM, but its made up for when I learn a lot of new info from the next issue.

Paraphrasing what I said to John, if people feel the content to be weak, why don't they contribute?

I remember a time when this group was much more on topic and there were very few posts. I gave up lurking after a while, as it didn't seem worth looking all the time.

When I post a rally report with pics, my Webshots feedback tell me loads of people have seen the post and then go to look at the pictures. How many of them can be bothered to even pass comment on the pics? Just a few regulars, no more. I don't expect thanks, I do it because I enjoy it and the conversation it triggers, but it would be nice if some of the people who think our efforts are a joke, at least acknowledged that they had a look, and pass comment on how they would have done it better.

So, as I've said before, come on all you observers, contribute, you'll be made welcome and treated with courtesy, unlike many other groups/lists/ forums I've seen where the resident bigmouths drown out and belittle other contributors.

Regards, Arthur G

Reply to
Arthur Griffin

Again I am moved to ask why - where's the joke - am I missing something here?

Reply to
Nick Highfield

That was the main reason for the formation of this group.

They must live a very blinkered existence.

This just reflects life in general. But some who find it a 'joke' see it as a threat to other forms of disseminating information.

I think that we have developed a good balance on the group so beg to differ there Chris. Without the OT the subject could become very dry indeed.

Are Hot Fog people more committed to keeping this the way it is?

The group has a major attraction over other communication methods in our hobby. The knowledge base that exists here is huge and also freely given. The major point though is the information is almost instant.

The help that can come from a person with wide experience of 'moving engines' or 'robotics' or classic campers etc. only helps to broaden the knowledge of us all.

Reply to
George Hendry

Don't know about the reference to the SE article as I don't usually see the magazine.

At the risk of being slightly contentious, it's the related OT that keeps this group going. If it were pure SE alone, folk would need to write a lot more to keep the interest up!

As it is, it's like being in a decent pub with your mates who like anything with engines, wheels and/or rust ..... you perambulate around engines, aircraft, motorcycles, fixing various broken thingies, motorcars, books about all of the afore-mentioned etc etc. I'm usually pint in hand whilst reading .....

Seems that the general mood is that most of us quite enjoy that diversity. I'd be unhappy if we went off into politics, religion, gun talk or whatever in the way of some other groups that many of us know. Right now, we're probably OK for most, at least whilst daily traffic levels are modest.

Colin

Reply to
Colin Osborne

I think that's a very fair summing up Colin. Personally I don't have the time/space/resources for classic cars, bikes, trains, aeroplanes etc. even though I am interested in them, so my modest collection of engines is a paradigm for the mechanical world in general.

The diversity of this group shows what a depth of knowledge is possessed by those who frequent it.

And now, to drag things back on topic, I have delivered the Petter Atomic crankshaft to the engineers, and was delighted to find that it

*just* fitted in the crank grinder. I am hoping to pick it up, plus the remetalled big end, at the end of February. On the way in I spied a Hornsby crank awaiting attention, and a 5hp Petter M in for a bore/sleeve job. There was also a beautiful straight eight crank shaft out of some piece of vintage Italian exotica, and a couple of Bristol straight sixes in for attention. There you are, I'm wandering OT again within the space of a couple of sentences.......

Regards

Philip T-E

Reply to
Philip THornton-Evison

I feel that it is time to come out of the shadows on this subject. I stopped posting to this newsgroup for the reasons of excessive OT postings and threads being taken off at tangents. I have started threads in the past only to have them hijacked and no suitable conclusion reached. I feel that the comparison that is made between the rally side of the hobby and this group is near perfect as both need to change seriously before either can be taken seriously. I only have one experience of rallying an engine and that was to be shunned by the other exhibitors for what appeared to be no other reason than bringing a slightly larger and more unusual engine and not having a nice stripy deckchair. This I find very similar to the increasingly insular attitude of this group. It is no longer a forum for discussing stationary engines but a private members club for useless postings about what the members have done recently. I agree that occasionally a bit of humour is welcome but perhaps we could stick to the odd joke and anecdotal engine story not what mileage the van gave at the weekend. Anyway I'm off to start my new news group on growing giant pumpkins. If anybody from here wants to join you will be most welcome as I could use some of this excess of fertiliser produced on this group to help with my record attempt.

John

Reply to
John Macdonald Smith

Hello John, how's the Bolinders?

I remember you commenting on one of my very early posts (Re. the wonderful song of two large engines at the Lister Petter rally) and thus contributing to making me feel welcome. I'd like to think that I now do the same for others, but with yourself, John and Chris all saying much the same thing, there is clearly something about this NG which is losing us potentially interesting and informative posts.

Reply to
Nick Highfield

"Chris Bedo" wrote (snip):-

Me too ;-)

Reply to
Nick Highfield

Some of the complaints I have heard, have been from people who are very much into engines, in that they rally a lot and have a decent sized collection. As John stated way back in the first post, the occasional user does not want to sift through hundreds of posts to find the odd one that is interesting to them, they will simply not bother. I don?t think that makes them small minded or takers, it is just human nature. The result? Useful information gets masked out and we lose someone who may have something useful to give back (as with John MS above for example).

I consider myself a regular poster here, so I read through most of the posts each day, but if I was to only log on once a week, the OT posts would probably annoy me more. As PTE said, Colin summed it up in a way with his comments, but I think we need to keep in mind the fact that not everyone wants to listen to all the OT stuff given the choice. Particularly the 'way OT' stuff.

To lay my cards on the table, my pet hates with any group (not specifically this one) are as follows:

Off Topics that are way off topic. Posts being made as part of a thread that are in no way related to the thread they are in. People who feel they have to comment on every thread, but don?t have anything to add thats of any value. The 'me too' scenario of longs lists of people saying "I got that virus too" etc. When someone's very useful comment goes unnoticed because of the OT ones surrounding it.

Rant over with for now anyway, no-doubt I have unintentionally upset someone! I think the only fair solution is for people who do not usually post and only lurk, to come out and give their views as well.

Regards

Chris Bedo

Reply to
Chris Bedo

Well, perhaps it's time for a few regulars to leave it alone for a while?

If there is that much feeling that the newsgroup is 'wrong' somehow, then let us leave it to those who feel that way to provide their own brand of posting and see how it gets on.

The problem is, they don't, and unless there is a sea change in their own level of postings, the group will just die away as both myself and George have already pointed out.

I'm happy to step down and let someone else have a go, and I'm sure Kim and Martin would do the same.

Over to you, lads, get your keyboards warmed up!

Peter

Reply to
Peter A Forbes

"Peter A Forbes" wrote

Don't do that Peter.

If you look at the stats you'll find I'm right up there with the rest of you regulars. Perhaps that makes me part of the problem, but I do find it worrying that a previous contributor can say that this NG is "no longer a forum for discussing stationary engines but a private members club for useless postings about what the members have done recently" Personally I derive a good deal of vicarious enjoyment from the 'what I dun at the weekend' type posts provided the subject matter is at least loosely vintage engineering related, it's the 'private members' bit which worrys me. How does anyone gain such an impression? You only have to post after all, it's a lot easier for instance than breaking into an interesting conversation between a gaggle of people at your local club.

I would happily see an end to the way OT stuff (yes I have occasionally been guilty) though.

Reply to
Nick Highfield

Let the others have their say, if they are right and we are wrong then the newsgroup will flourish. Or it won't.

Peter

Reply to
Peter A Forbes

"Peter A Forbes" wrote

I'm all for others having their say - COME ON, JUST PUSH THOSE BUTTONS GUYS! (intentional shout) - but not to the exclusion of the 'usual supects'. Come on, tell us some more about this Drayton diesel or something. It's taken years to build up this NG into the useful and entertaining resource that it is, don't endanger its health just to prove a point.

Reply to
Nick Highfield

Nick:

Don't sit there jumping up and down, shut up and let the others have a go, that's what they want, let them do it.

I'll dig out some pictures of the unit later on tonight and let you have the url off-list.

I'm not proving a point, I'm letting others put their keyboards where their mouths are :-))

Peter

Reply to
Peter A Forbes

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