OT- Something Fishy about Kerry's being a "Hero"


Subject: Fwd: Something Fishy In a message dated 2/18/2004
>9:54:26 AM US Mountain Standard Time, snipped-for-privacy@cox.net writes: >
>
>Dick I was with CTF115 Coastal Surveillance Force in 1971-1972 in
>CamRahn Bay, We moved to Saigon and became CTF 115/SEA OPS
>CMD,Under MACV,This is when we combined Blue Water and Brown
>Water Operations,I don't remember recieving any reports from
>other than Market Time Units until after the move, I was Watch
>Supervisor in the CMD CENTER.
>
>Sent to me by an old shipmate....
>
>I was in the Delta shortly after he left. I know that area well.
>I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the
>tactics and the doctrine used. I know the equipment. Although I
>was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with
>CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command.
>
>Here are my problems and suspicions:
>
>(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected, a
>Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three purple hearts. I never
>heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL
>One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force)
>collecting that much hardware so fast, and for such pedestrian
>actions. The Swifts did a commendable job.
>
>But that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated
>only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong).
>The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the
>smaller, faster PBRs.
>
>(2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor that
>no time lost from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself
>in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house
>hatch? Combat on the boats was almost always at close range.
>You didn't have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three
>times in a row. Then he used the three purple hearts to request
>a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.
>
>(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver
>Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the
>boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand,
>the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin .50, Kerry beaches
>the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retreives the launcher.
>If true, he did everything wrong.
>
>(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your
>stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the
>ballistic integrity of a frisbie after about 25 yards, so you put
>50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with >your .50's.
>
>(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber
>round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket
>launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except
>if you knew he was no danger to you just flopping around in the
>dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some
>derring do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot
>wounded people. We had rules against that, too.
>
>(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing
>procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot
>area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the
>beach your boat was defenseless. It coudn't run and it couldn' t
>return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He
>should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any
>boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.
>
>Something is fishy.
>
>Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court
>martial for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple
>people killed by running across the bow of a Jap destroyer) who
>is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get a good tan, collects
>medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals
>weren't common, gets sent home eight months early, requests
>separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run
>for Congress, finds out war heros don't sell well in Massachsetts
>in 1970 so reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons
>in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political
>career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and
>Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting, winds up in
>the Senate himself a few years later, votes against every major
>defense bill, says the CIA is irrelevant after the Wall came
>down, votes against the Gulf War, a big mistake since that turned
>out well, decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for
>invading Iraq, but oops, that didn't turn out so well so he now
>says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to
>allow him to go to war.
>
>I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering our flanks
>in Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander in Chief. I hope
>that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging
>Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildy inflated.
>And fishy.
>
> Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday.
>
>
>Raymond P. Perks
>
>
The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of
"loyalty" and "duty."
Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You
may possibly
save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus
Long
Reply to
Gunner
Loading thread data ...
Gunner wrote in message ...
isn't there creditable documentation for his acts that earned the medals?
Dale
Reply to
dalecue
Never in the Vietnam era military I take it?
Gunner
The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long
Reply to
Gunner
I was. Often the "documentation" is a note of observation from a fellow soldier/subordinate and often they are reciprocal or at least there are reciprocal statements on other occasions. You scratch my bronze star & I'll scratch yours. Some were truly earned and some were not. (mine was not, IMO, just doing my job) Greg Sefton
Reply to
Bray Haven
Does it come as any surprise that a candidate for President was inclined toward self promotion? He was there and he served in a combat zone, and I think that deserves some respect regardless.
Reply to
ATP
Gunner, you really should check your sources before you post. This turkey has been all over the Internet and appears to be largely bullshit. See
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It really would be nice if we could survive this election cycle without rcm degenerating into political hell. I have nothing against a bit of fun OT content here; hell, I recently started the thread on raccoons. That said, could we please avoid electorial politics? At least until after the election?
Regards Vaughn
Long
Reply to
Vaughn
Exactly. Mine were all a result of bad luck and fuckups on my part.
However...I know of a number of REMFs who got Silver and Bronze Stars, by putting in for each other , or the CO/XO in for theirs and the deal was reciprical..
I met a supply guy, never out of Long Bin, who had at least 4 Purple Fuckups. Box cutter wounds, C-Rat band injuries, I think he pinched his finger in a door once...He was hit by a forklift, while staggering around drunk, and got a Heart.
All well documented. And then Ive seen guys who deserved the CMH who didnt even play a role in after action reports, if they were on someones shit list, or on the wrong side of some border, etc.
Gunner
The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long
Reply to
Gunner
Algor served in a "combat zone" also. Along with his 2 body guards. For all of 4 months.
Gunner
The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long
Reply to
Gunner
Gunner wrote in message ...
Gunner sez
as usual, you take it incorrectly - what a schock
Dale
"loyalty" and "duty."
You may possibly
Reply to
dalecue
Just for emphasis, I would like to respectfully repeat the really important part of my previous post: "could we please avoid electorial politics? At least until after the election?"
Thanks Vaughn
Reply to
Vaughn
I read the Snopes spin and it sure appeared to me that it substantiated the original post point for point.(after calling it false) Perhaps a few small details were omitted or embellished, but not the basic claims of "fishy" IMO . Am I reading it wrong here? Greg Sefton
Reply to
Bray Haven
What's the fun of "electorial politics" after the election :o)? Greg S.
Reply to
Bray Haven
Speaking of FU's, The brigade commander was pinning a bronze star & on me along with some other awardees while I was back at base camp getting pay for the troops in the bush. He came to me and started to pin it on and noted that I had another one and a VN cross of gallantry & one other VN medal I don't even know what it was given for & said "what Lt, no purple heart?" and without thinking I replied, "Only people who make mistakes get purple hearts, Sir" I glanced at his chest and, you guessed it, there was a PH with 2 clusters.:o) He just grunted & moved on down the line. Greg Sefton
Reply to
Bray Haven
Of course he does. 4 moths worth. Then he was a generals aid. He can take credit for that & I'll be happy to give it to him. But, he also has to atone for trashing his service and inciting mutiny, aiding the enemy and now when it's cool to be a veteran, he's wearing it on his sleeve and using it to suppress his abysmal record on national defense & security. He can't have it both ways. I'd also like to see his entire military record. He's going to cry that someone (Bush) is bashing his patriotism every time his record as a senator is questioned. Just how much immunity from scrutiny for the past 30 years do you think that 4 months earned him??? Greg Sefton
Reply to
Bray Haven
Save your keystrokes. Gunner will continue his denial and propaganda posting service no matter what anyone says about it. If his side wins, his posting frequency may lessen somewhat, but if they lose he'll go into overdrive. By next February he'll be posting that the new Pres eats babies for breakfast and is secretly married to Ted Kennedy. Anyone who challenges the validity of his claims and cites will be rudely reminded that Billary invented Saddam, spam, and tool chatter. When caught dead-wrong, he'll simply don his suit of invisibility.
These are just my predications, they have a margin of error of 2.7%.
Wayne
Reply to
wmbjkREMOVE_THIS
Umm, the guy's running for president. Against Karl Rove. Just exactly how much immunity do you *think* he expects?!
LOL.
Jim
================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================
Reply to
jim rozen
Heh. Open mouth, insert foot. Yep, I'm a member of *that* club...
Jim
================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================
Reply to
jim rozen
What if someone else had written this:
|Save your keystrokes. [Current poster] will continue his denial and propaganda |posting service no matter what anyone says about it. If his side wins, |his posting frequency may lessen somewhat, but if they lose he'll go |into overdrive. By next February he'll be posting that the new Pres |eats babies for breakfast and is secretly married to [an Enron executive]. |Anyone who challenges the validity of his claims and cites will be |rudely reminded that [George Sr. or Ronald Reagan] invented Saddam, spam, and tool chatter.
Rex in Fort Worth
Reply to
Rex B
Apparently a bunch. When his senate vote is questioned, he says they can't do that if they didn't fight in Vietnam and their questioning his patriotism. He's sure trying to get some immunity, but I'll wager you libs will even be ashamed of this guy when the whole truth gets out. You still seem obsessed with this Rove character. Is he running for Prez too? Sure would be easier to discredit him than the great leader at the helm now :o). Greg Sefton
Reply to
Bray Haven
[deletia]
Why would he run for president when he runs the president?
All credit where credit is due.
This country is a mite short on leaders at present, great or otherwise.
Reply to
Tom Stovall

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