DCC RTR in N - How long do we wait........

"Eric Williams" wrote

Peco are soon to release a DCC fitted GWR Collett 0-6-0 & tender which is alleged to have a Lenz decoder or decoder technology incorporated. The downside is the price - around GBP140.00 which I reckon will put it out of reach for very many people.

John.

In message , Eric Williams writes

Very bad on the wallet. Not habit to indulge in lightly. [I should know].

Those of us who 'indulge' and model in German outline don't find this at all surprising. However you get what are prepared to pay for and no way can one compare Fleischmann prices or products with for example Hornby. It's always a case of you pays your money etc.

Expecting UK modellers to pay Fleischmann prices, in sufficient volume on which to base any sort of corporate decision of that sort is definitely living in the realm of the cuckoo :0) While they might put a toe in the water with a single model or even two, expecting volume and a wide choice of motive power chipped and RTR is a faint hope.

One could of course always run mainstream continental outline.

Cheers.

In message , John Turner writes

Therein lies the problem. Volume sales stimulate sales. If the UK modeller is prepared to demand the best, he/she has to be prepared to fund the best. Having struggled all afternoon replacing Peco's point motors and sections of badly worn rail, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Peco have dallied with the idea of producing loco's before. Their previous main line units produced back in the 80s were at the time far superior to the Farish offerings but were expensive and were discontinued. The new venture could quite possibly go the same way unless the volume of sales justify retention and expansion of loco production. Let's hope that's the case.

Cheers.

For that amount, you could buy a loco of choice, buy the decoder and spend 2 hours fitting it at £30 per hour. I'm fairly sure there are people who already offer this service but I fail to see how a mass producer cannot do the work on a production line in China for less than £100 for a large steam or diesel/electric loco.

I know some lines take a while to setup but I reckon it's worth someone doing it for what must be an emerging market.

oh, if only I had a spare warehouse and some cheap labour......

Luke

"Luke Briner" wrote

One of the problems as I see it is that China requires significant production runs and my guess is that the new Peco loco will be produced in hundreds rather than thousands.

It's currently at the pre-production stage and is being developed and manufactured here in the UK. I'm guessing it will be released at the Warley Show at the NEC in December.

John.

For British outline models?

Hello again,

I've just spent 1/2 an hour browsing the FLEISCHMANN N gauge website.

I was wondering if anyone has inside information about the possibility of British outline N gauge DCC models coming up by any manufacturers in the near or distant future?

Or am I living in cloud cuckoo land? :-)

TIA

Eric Williams

And the other thing to consider is development/tooling costs. At a first approximation, those are static regardless of units sold. For a model with potential sales of (say) 5000 units, and a wholesale price (ie before the shop keeper and chancellor have their cut) of £60, that means the total development and manufacturing budget is £30,000 (ie. not much). If the sales were 20,000 units, the budget would be £120,000. As the manufacturing cost per unit is fairly low, this means all those extra unit sales can either be for better design (ie. more accurate and better running) or lower development costs (and thus lower selling price).

Its important to get back the development/tooling costs early, so no use saying that the model might sell x-thousands over a decade. Until the development costs are paid off, that money has been borrowed, so is costing a lot over 10% per year until repaid. (It could earn 6% just sitting in decent savings account and rather better invested in other companies). Hence why new arrivals like Dapol are keen to sell entire batches out quickly at the wholesaler.

That's my guess.

It will be an interesting test in two ways. Can Peco produce a really good steam loco in the scale which is massively better than those from the other makers, thus justifying the higher price, and is the UK buyer willing to pay "Fleischmann like" prices for a better model.

- Nigel

"Nigel Cliffe" wrote

I've seen a pre-production sample and I have to say (as a 4mm modeller) it impressed me, just as their 'Jubilee' did 30+ years ago. Would I pay GBP140.00 for one? Well, even if I was modelling in 2mm scale I'd almost certainly have to say no.

As a retailer I can't say I've been overwhelmed with demand, despite the fact that a Peco employee is a member of our local model railway club and I know he's shown a pre-production sample around.

John.

It's one thing to re-coup tooling costs but I would expect a manufacturer to build a decoder into an existing locomotive design rather than develop a whole new set of tooling specifically for a decoder based loco - that would not be wise because of the small volumes. If it is possible to fit a decoder into, say, a Farish King class then it is something that could be done manually in a factory for nothing like another £60 per unit. It would be done on a smallish percentage of all the Kings that are manufactured and can be adjusted as demand requires.

If someone can assemble a one-off unit for cheaper than a manufacturer can mass produce them then there is something very wrong!!!

Luke