Hornby B12 Derailments

I've just bought a new, China made, Hornby B12 and the tender derails on
just about every Peco code 100 point on my layout. The back to back
measurements of the tender wheels seem rather narrow and the tender
frames also seem very close together, which doesn't give a lot of space
for improving things.
I have heard of other people having trouble with the tenders of these
locos. Does anyone know of a solution, perhaps a supplier of better
tender wheels?
Reply to
Gerald H
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Hornby should supply correctly spaced wheels. If they don't, send the #^%#% thing back. You're paying enough of your hard earned moolah for the loco, after all.
cheers,
wolf k.
Reply to
Wolf K
Fair enough, but this may take time. I operate some of the new Hornby stock on finescale track, ie B/B 14.2 mm minimum. I get a lot of Hornby stuff which is tighter than this. If it is just the B12 tender which is giving bother you can increase the B/B yourself by taking the wheels out and gently twisting the wheelset while pulling the wheels away from each other. I have also done loco driving wheels using a slightly more brutal technique which I won't bother you with here. The twist and pull technique works a treat on coaches and wagons and I did my A4 tender that way as well.
We need to remember these models are assembled by people who have no idea what they are making. I guess wheel sets are delivered ready assembled and the little Chinese ladies just drop them in. No one is testing anything much these days. If they did, prices would be much higher.
Personally I think Hornby wheels are so improved over the old 'steam roller' wheels that a small amount of fiddling is a price I am pepared to pay.
Alistair W
Reply to
Alistair Wright
Agree with Alistair on that, if youre a bit clumsy occasionaly esp with wheel cleaning then tis worth getting used to checking/correcting b2b. Although its new would also check wheels are clean with no bits of gunge adjacent to flanges.
Cheers, Simon
Reply to
simon
Judging by the number of B2B gauges I have sold in the last few months, this is becoming more of a problem, especially on the finer scale track.
Pete.
Reply to
intercityman2000
I have had similar problems with various locos -- mainly Bachmann. After endless checks and measurements I tried a random swap of axel sets and that did the trick in each case. Most of the problems arose on curved points whist going astern.
regards
Reply to
Sailor
Sending it back to Hornby would be a bit of a pain and looking at the tender chassis (see below) it's hard to see how they could resolve it, unless later Chinese B12's have a different tender chassis.
Moving the wheels out on the axles would be the obvious thing to do, but my China made B12 surprisingly has Triang-style sleeved axles. The back- to-back measurement is thus determined by the length of the inner sleeves which is too short. I could try and fit a tiny washer in there to push the sleeves apart, but the sideframes are pretty tight. Another option might be to find non-sleeved wheels that would push onto the axle.
A lot of ex-set B12's seem to be on offer at very good prices at the moment, so I'm wondering whether others have had the same problem. The loco chassis runs very well.
Reply to
Gerald H
In message , Gerald H writes
Hi Gerald
The split-sleeve axle design goes back more years than most would care to remember.
The solution is to remove the wheel/split axles and reduce the moulded boss on the outside face of each wheel. It is not essential to insert a spacer as the wheels will adapt to the flangeways by themselves.
Regards
Reply to
Bill Campbell
Thanks for all your help on this. I have solved the problem.
As suggested I removed the wheels and filed down the moulded boss on the outside of each wheel axle. I also filed down any moulding bumps on the inside of the tender frames which allowed the wheels to spread further when going through the points. With old Triang wheels this would have been enough, but as the newer Hornby sleeved wheels have smaller flanges, the wheels were still rising up over the check rails.
I solved it by getting a plastic drinks bottle, flattening it out and making washers out it. These washers are exactly the right thickness to spread the wheels by the required amount.
To make the washers, just clamp the plastic to your Workmate, drill axle sized holes in it and then cut around each of them with scissors.
The axle with the exhaust steam sound thingy on it is a little more complex. You have to gently force off the metal clip and then separate the two halves of the axles with a razor saw, as they may have been glued together. I had to put two washers on that axle to compensate for the cut of the razor saw.
The tender now runs perfectly and it cost me nothing... :)
Reply to
Gerald H
"Gerald H" wrote
From memory these still have the original Tri-ang spec plastic tender wheels, which have gross flanges and a back-to-back of around 13mm (14.5 to 15.0 been considered appropriate these days). The B12 also has a terrible reputation for wearing out the drive gears.
I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole.
John.
Reply to
John Turner
"Gerald H" wrote
It should go back to the retailer from which you bought it, but if that's not feasible, then Hornby have a 'freepost' address for warranty repairs.
John.
Reply to
John Turner
Mine still has the chuff chuff sound, goes round 1st radius curves with fully flanged wheels and cost me (new) less than GBP 30 :)
It'll look a bit better when I glaze the cab, stick in a crew and plug in the vacuum pipes.
Reply to
Gerald H
That one had a good mechanism with the excellent Triang motor and two start worm.
Many kits were designed around it, including my Wills Saint, even though the wheelbase was wrong.
The rebuilt B12 was actually due to Thompson during his tenure at Stratford, not Gresley, and was probably his best engine - even better IMO than the B1. I didn't see them very often because I lived on the former Metropolitan and Great Central not the Great Eastern.
Reply to
Christopher A. Lee
[Hornby B12]
We had a Chinese-made one on Thorpe Thewles and it was very reliable, if quite some way out of region (we were short of LNER-liveried engines at the time and got a good price on it). As long as you're careful starting it, it can lift 8-10 of the old Hornby Gresley Teaks and will just keep going.
Its place in the rotation was eventually taken by Gresley A1 class Flying Fox but we do still take it with us every now and again.
Reply to
Graham Thurlwell
They worked a lot better than my K's engines. Better motor and chassis, and can you imagine anything more ridiculous than soft white metal piston and connecting rods?
Reply to
Christopher A. Lee
[...]
I admire your ingenuity and persistence, but I would have sent the model back. If you can fix the problem with such low-tech methods, then Hornby could easily redesign the frame so that correctly sized wheel sets would fit.
Anyhow, you had fun, and that's what really counts, eh? ;-)
cheers,
wolf k.
Reply to
Wolf K
If it had been a bigger fault I would have sent it back, I also got the loco at such a low price (a new tender loco for less than GBP 30!) that I was happy to do a bit of fiddling. The time I spend fiddling was probably little more than it would have taken me to package it up and go to the Post Office. I was also worried about the postal system causing more damage, or losing it...
I must admit that I do like to do a bit of tweaking with my models and the simpler, more robust, models like the B12 are great for this as they are cheaper and less fragile.
Despite being in my 40's, I also like smoke generators, chuff chuff noises and wagons with opening doors that I can put stuff in. Boys never grow up...
Reply to
Gerald H

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