Hornby Elite DCC - some comments

Reposted from snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com
Folks,
I just want to bring your attention to a few of the problems we are
experiencing with the Hornby Select system and Hornby loco's fitted with their decoders.
Firstly we have been notified of problems with running TCS decoder fitted loco's on a Hornby Select system.
We know the Select will only work with addresses up to 59 but even with lower numbers on the TCS decoders the Select unit will not recognise them.
In addition, we are aware that the Hornby decoders are not recognised by the Gaugemaster system and this system will not read any CV info from the Hornby decoders.
The only conclusion that we have been able to come to so far is that the Hornby Select unit is not NMRA compatible and therefore will only work with their own decoders.
Lastly, please be aware that the Hornby decoders that are due for release soon have a maximum current load of 0.5 amps. Hence we suggest people thoroughly check the current draw of their locomotives before thinking of fitting one of these. We know that many of the Bachmann range and certainly the Heljan products will blow these decoders. Upon release of the Elite Unit we will be asking Hornby for a complete list of the current draw of all their locomotives so that we can make sure we recommend the correct decoder for the correct locomotive. Whether it will be forthcoming or not is another matter.
Please if anybody has any experience with the Select unit I would welcome feedback and comments on the above.
Best Regards, Adrian Hall
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Methinks that's the general idea :o)
(kim)
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"kim" wrote

Cynic! ;-)
John.
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Oh good I'm pleased theyre out - or is this just from sets ! I finally weaseled the cash to order an Elite last week - cant wait.
As a programmer (a person really, but do some programming) but not a DCC expert, I immediately wonder if thats because the decoders should be set for 2 digit addresses and not just be within the 1-59 range ? Or even the other way round and the decoders should be set for 4 digits! What does the NMRA standard say ? Would like to get our facts right before we have a go at hornby.
Simon
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Aren't decoders supposed to be plug-and-play? If these aren't, then it will seriously damage their sales.
--
Jane
OO and DCC in the garden
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writes

Would be a bit limiting having all your locos responding to commands for address 3 ! Is it <g> what means grin. Depends whats meant by plug n play in this context then.
Simon
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writes

THREE!
(tv joke)
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Are you saying that BBC3 is a joke?
--
Jane
OO and DCC in the garden
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Not at all. I record it for a friend in America. He quite likes it. Mind you, he hasn't seen episodes 4 & 6 of Torchwood yet.
(kim)
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kim said the following on 21/11/2006 23:22:

I don't know what the episode numbers are, but last Sunday's was a bit weak. Not an alien or supernatural event in sight :-(
I'll never trust the fairies at the bottom of the garden again though now!
--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk /
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"simon" wrote

I for one am not 'having a go' at Hornby, but people on here have asked for information on the new Hornby systems, and as a result I've posted information from elsewhere which I've thought was relevent.
If others have found a problem with the Hornby product (or anyone else's for that matter) then it needs reporting, if only to stimulate sensible debate.
John.
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Yes I was stimulated to ask for some additional info, based on the answers can decide if should suggest Hornby have been naughty or give purchasers the additional info so they can use other decoders with these systems. Theres a big difference between cannot use other decoders - the conclusion reached thus far - and the additional programming step to set the decoder to 2 digits is required.
Simon
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DCC
set
the
the
Care to translate that last bit into English for us Simon? :o)
(kim)
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Queens, US, pidgeon, estury do be specific !
If variety of commonly purchesed decoders dont work with hornby DCC when set to address below 59 then hornby naughty.
If variety of commonly purchased decoders do work with hornby DCC when set to address below 59 as long as also set to 2 digit addresses then purchasers (and would be ones) can be given extra info.
thats how I understand it...
Simon
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"simon" > wrote

Shouldn't any decoder with an address set to a *higher* number than 59, or 99 in the case of the Lenz Compact, be read as default '3'?
That is certainly the case with the Lenz Compact.
John.
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No, definitely not. If a decoder has a short address of, say, 100 then CV1 should read as 100, regardless of what system you read it on, otherwise the system is not working correctly.
There maybe a caveat for Lenz decoders. Lenz command stations do not allow access to the full range of short addresses (1 - 127). It may be that their decoders also restrict what can be set as a short address in CV1, and default to 3 if you try to set an address higher than 99. In that case there's no problem since CV1 really does contain 3.

I'll have to take yoour word for it, but if it really is the case that the Lenz compact reads 3 from, say, a TCS decoder set to short address 100 then the compact has a bug.
Similarly, if the Hornby unit read 3 from any decoder with a short address greater than 59 then it would not be working correctly. The restriction to 59 is a command station restriction and it would be plain stupid if it applied to their decoders as well.
MBQ
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The Hornby Elite and Lenz Compact will not read an address as high as 100, and in every case where I've had a visiting loco with an address greater than 99 my Compact reads it as '3' at least on the programming track and allows me then to change to address to one of two digits. That's what I meant to say in the first place, but perhaps didn't say it very clearly.
John.
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wrote

Tis one of those things every programmer enjoys, how do you tell people that the value is as per default without confusing them and causing problems. the cop out is just refuse to read it. However displaying a value of 3 may make some people think it is set with address 3 - fair does really. May be better to have a special symbol like >99. Still its good it will allow it to be changed.
Cheers, Simon
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Well, I was thinking about going DCC, but all this talk of low address and high address and will it or won't it is putting me off. I thought DCC was DCC was DCC. Isn't there supposed to be a standard for all this?
Nope, until it all works together to a common standard, I'll stick with plain old DC, methinks.
--
Paul Boyd
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There are standards. Short addresses can be 1 - 127 and long addresses can be 1 - 10239. A bit in CV29 determines which type of address a decoder will respond to. It's not difficult to understand and any decoder that does not support this is not compliant with the relevant bits of the standards (long addressing is optional but must be implemented in full to be compliant).
When it comes to the user interface on the command station, some manufacturers have, however, chosen to interpret the standards in their own way and restrict users to, say, short adresses of 1 - 99 and long addresses of 100 - 9999. They call it "differentiating" their product. I call it deliberately confusing the user so that they stick to one manufacturer.

It does work to a common standard. Despite the confusion over addresses, any compliant decoder can be made to work with any compliant command station. At the same time, manufacturer specific features such as transponding are allowed to co-exist with plain vanilla DCC.
MBQ
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