Made in China

I guess in the West that work would be done by robots.

Notice how the guy in the second row has to duck his head every time the press comes down?

Like a scene from "Modern Times"

NB the stupid comment from annaj:

annaj2929 (4 months ago) Wow, if only Magna assembly employees would be this productive.

The workers at Magna are actually more productive: Magna's automated presses require fewer workers to produce more stampings.

Why do people persist in thinking thatm more sweat = higher productivity?

HTH

Chris

How poor health and safety procedures have 'helped' China ........

" Now official health and safety guys in China are government appointees and usually former officials who never quite made it to a better job. They get an office on site, chain smoke all day and nap a lot. "

Also

India is also considered to be another world manufacturing centre and apart from the radioactive lift buttons appears to be better prepared to comply with European and US H & S standards.

Chris

Don't forget that Britain became the leader in industrial production =

through a complete lack of safety standards for it's workers.

Regards, Greg.P.

And everywhere else we get cheap goods from. It's funny how Johnny Foreigner's H&S is not an issue for us if the price is right ;-)

Cheers Richard

Not sure if that is totally correct, H&S didn't exists *anywhere* during the industrial revolution (in fact it didn't really take hold until after WW2), the UK became a world-wide industrial leader by trading with it's self - in effect, as Mr Procter should know, considering that the last time I looked NZ was still part of the 'Commonwealth'...

"Greg.Procter" wrote

Aye but to be fair we stopped employing young lads as chimney sweeps a year or two back, and now probably have some of the most rigorous H&S legislation in the civilised world.

My original comment was very much tongue-in-cheek, but to be realistic China has been an industrialised nation for a long, long time and yet still fails to regard employee safety as an issue. Some of the tales I've heard about employees being controlled by arm guards don't seem far from the mark.

John.

Mores the pity, the tot has perfect build and strength for that job. Doesnt even need a brush as got a good mop of hair.

Cheers, Simon

I was manufacturing controllers a few years back. The local shops wanted= =

"all in one" transformer controllers rather tyhan my hand-helds. Did some checking and found I would have to get my controllers certified= =

at horrendous expense. All sorts of standards had to be met and such =

things as mains transformers on the low voltage PC board was a no-no. So= , =

back to repairing imported controllers - those don't need certification = =

because they are already certifed for US, Singapore ... and Aus. One =

particular brand (major one, starts with B) has the transformer on the l= ow =

voltage PC board alongside the swinging lever of the speed rheostat. Hmmmmm.

Greg.P.

Britain lead industrial development from back around 1700 until perhaps

1918. My rellies left Britain (and Germany) for a better life from c1640-1919. Take a look at British industrial conditions around 1900, mining, factories, trades etc. Sure, NZ is a part of the Commonwealth - P.Grand-father Procter farmed wool (well sheep actually) which went to the Parker Woollen mill in Bradford (P.Grand-mother). M.Grand-father managed a flour-mill which mainly exported to G.B. NZ bought most of it's imported manufactured goods from Britain because those pounds weren't allowed to be spent elsewhere.

Regards, Greg.P.

Sure, but the amount of industry has dropped drastically.

Sure, they've had industries, but most of China is still a peasant culture.

Agreed. A current topic here in NZ is the Frontera (NZ milk processing company) which has a 40% share in one of the milk/malamine producing companies in China. They knew for six months that the Chinese milk suppliers were lacing the raw milk with melamine but couldn't get the milk processing company or relevant Government department to do anything about it pre-Olympics. They finally got action started through our Government to the Chinese Government, but no publicity or recall until after the event.

Greg.P.

I read somewhere that over half of China's diecast toy/model factories have been closed down by the government. Have they been putting melamine in the mazac?

Why not use a plug pack of suitable ratings for the supply, just simply plug them in. Works for just about everything else these days. Selling them as a pair would overcome the "all in one" argument surely? They are available off the shelf or to special order.

No 240V any where near your controllers and with AU/NZ plugs. They meet AU/NZ standards already.

Kevin Martin

No, just the western world has stopped importing (if world shipping rates is anything to go by [1]), as some reporter said in a (unrelated) TV report yesterday, if you can't sell what you produce you stop producing it...

[1] the more being shipped the higher the shipping rates, the less being shipped the lower the rates.

On 07/11/2008 02:19, Greg.Procter said,

Not necessarily - putting mains transformers onto a PCB is fine so long as certain design rules are followed. If it wasn't fine, the particular brand starting with a B wouldn't be making them :-)

Indeed. The industrial revolution didn't happen in Britain rather than elsewhere simply because elsewhere had different safety standards.

There were a whole load of factors, from geography, wealth, stability, access to materials, a religious background which would tolerate development, legal and financial systems, etc etc.

I doubt people like Arkwright looked at the French, Prussian and Spanish H&S rules before deciding to do their thing here instead.

He would these days though when all the raw materials would have to be imported;-) As is made clear at the various Ironbridge museums, the revolution happened there because all the raw materials were to hand. There was no transport infrastructure at all before except for the horse, over very poor "roads" largely the remnants of Roman occupation, so it had to.

If product A is £20 made here, or £10 made elsewhere - very, very few are going to say "ah, but those who make the £10 one are being exploited/ exposed to H&S risks" and choose the £20 version - you just have to see the wasteland that was British manufacturing for ample evidence that. To a large extent the UK and US are unique in this, the rest of Europe seems quite determined to make and buy their own goods, hence they still have manufacturing companies and associated jobs.

I'm not a believer in import barriers, but I believe that there is a case for an import levey proportionate to the local cost savings "enjoyed" by others who do not have the same burden of H&S, environmental and regulatory cost as we do. That would at least improve conditions for the overseas workers, and level the playing field somewhat. It'll never happen though as long as saving money overrides the thought of putting our neighbours out of a job (and then moaning like hell about them claiming benefits!) or being *genuinely* concerned about, say, the Chinese workers well being.

As an example, one of our customers was a buyer for Rover and went to India to negotiate for camshafts. The factory had virtually no toilet facilities, shop floor staff were expected to use the field next door on the way in - quite a saving and considered perfectly ok by the factory owners!

Even on the few products where such issues are considered, one has to wonder about just who gets the money. When the Co-Op went "fair trade" on it's coffee machine coffee the price just about quadrupled, meaning the growers should not only have been lifted out of poverty, but should have a rather good living standard compared to previously. They, it would seem from a documentary on the Beeb, haven't - so where has the money gone?

Just in case anyone is wondering, yes I do buy British where I can, for example all out white goods in the kitchen (except the microwave) are UK made in Staffordshire (no longer possible since Creda etc is now made overseas), despite costing rather more and having less "features" than alternatives. I do try to practice what I preach, but it's getting very difficult. That's sad, as I had 6 months on the dole many years back and I'd not wish that on anyone.

Cheers Richard