Just got back from the local model store here in Atlanta, where I was shown something that I think is so brilliant I wish I had thought of it!!!! Apparently, the new range of HO Locos, will have the option of analog, DCC equipped or DCC/Sound Equipped. The part that I like is that the sound decoder, as well the usual bells and whistles.. has station announcements. I hope a UK outline manufacturer gets on this. I can think of nothing better than hearing "The Train on Platform 1 calls at Farnham, Bently and Alton" as a train stops at the platform. Oh well, dream on.................... Rob
A certain manufacturer can't even manage lights on its new models let alone sound. At present built-in sound be a waste of time as it would be drowned out by the noise from the motor. There seems to be more concern with reducing costs than improving features.
Yes but how precisely are we supposed to do that? "Dear Mr Bachmann/Hornby/Heljan, I demand that you produce models with more features". "Dear Kim, get stuffed". We are only just now getting the kind of models that magazine editors have been asking for since the 1960's. In another forty years we will get the kind they are asking for now.
"kim" wrote A certain manufacturer can't even manage lights on its new models let alone sound.
Yes, but reading the articles, they get pulled down for it... I just hope it doesn't take as long to realise it is what we demand, as the better motors\detail has.
Besides, the "perfect" model would not give some folk anything to do if there were no lights or super detail or etch brass panels to replace and repaint. But, Yes, there should be a limit !
Look at it from the other side - and this time I don't mean design or price.... How accurate do you want your layout to look? You add lights to a loco. OK for freight, but oh, doesn't the coaches look dull in the dark. Lets get Horn-mann to fit lights to their new Mk VII coaches just about to be released in 2017 to look nice with the MkIII class 37 which last saw service 15 years ago.... Before you know it, your stations and streetlamps and cars are all lite and your energy drain on the national grid has gone up by a few megawatts ! A Little tongue in cheek I know, but the idea is in there!
I've been messing today with a Broadway International Limited USRA 2-8-2 which is sound equipped and gives the option for use on DC or DCC. I have to say that overall I'm not impressed.
Firstly the standard of model finish and detailing is pretty poor - not much better than the junk which Mehano were chucking out 10-15 years ago, with two much moulded on (rather than separately fitted) detail and several poor fitting components.
Running quality is no better than average - nowhere near as good as Bachmann's current output for the UK market. I've had two of these locos through my hand in recent weeks and both were equally unsatisfactory - impossible to get smooth low speed running on either DC or DCC operation, and a bit lumpy when running in reverse.
Even the sound, which at first seems impressive, seems to lack syncronisation with the running speed of the loco, and after a while become tedious and boring and doesn't seem to change in emphasis when the loco was coasting. I can imagine that a layout full of the things would be a serious nuisance.
The 2-8-2 runs marginally better on DCC with the speed setting upped to 128, but getting smooth take up and gentle deceleration didn't appear possible.
Hopefully MTH locos might be better quality all round, not that it would take much doing, and it's not as if the BLI offering was an inexpensive model.
Personally I still think I prefer the option to buy a loco supplied in analogue mode, then pick and choose the decoder to suit my needs and then decide IF I want to add sound. My be slightly more expensive that way, but at least the options are wider.
My chief point was that sound is a natural progression from lights so if a manufacturer is unwilling (or unable) to fit lights they are extremely unlikely to offer sound either.
By the end of this Xmas period an unprecedented number of newbies will have invested in a DCC system of some sort. Having made that initial investment they need to justify the cost by finding as many things to do with DCC as possible. An obvious candidate is the switching on and off of lights. That's why I think Hornby have made a strategic error by not including lights in their new Gresley coaches. DC users may be happy but the ever growing proportion of DCC converts will simply buy a different kind of coach altogether. That may not sound logical but I've seen it happen in other areas of consumer electronics.
I think you're right in the technical sense but where sound is concerned I believe it's _horrendously_ more expensive to add separately than to build-in at factory?
But if the factory added sound isn't worth having then I don't want it. Under those circumstances not only would the add-on sound be more expensive, but it's likely to stay that way because fewer people would buy it. As it is now sound chips are likely to drop significantly in price as DCC uptake increases and the demand for them follow.
On the other angle let's just take a look at the class 25 diesel in the Bachmann *Digital Freight* set. That has a cheap and nasty factory fitted decoder, if you want to replace it with a better decoder then it's much more difficult to do than fitting a decoder to an analogue class 25.
You may not, but many would. Especially those buying sets for their children. My relatives think the sound produced by the R/C Thomas and Percy set is "cool". Of course they don't know that it is possible to fit sound into the engines themselves.
I would like engines that were DCC, sound and smoke 'ready' and with good lights fitted. On the other hand I don't like the current prices for such locomotives.
But we're talking about two different markets here. If the toy market want steam locos that sound like diesels that's ok by me, but as a modeller I don't want a sound fitted class 37 which sounds like a Deltic, or worse, sounds like nothing which ever ran on rails.
However production economics may mean that it is cheaper for us to take our soldering iron to the 'toy market' product than to get the unfitted item and add DCC, sound etc to it. A better arrangement might be locos that are prefitted with DCC etc, but which still have a DCC socket and some mechanism such that plugging in our own decoder disables the on board decoder. This then allows the manufacturer to fit a single board which does everything, but still allows us to upgrade the functions provided.
I don't want sound at all. In my opinion it is totally unrealistic, and I'm better off with nothing.
What's the point of sound, whether DCC or DC? As I understand it, it's only the locomotives that have the sound, not the coaches and wagons. Not the cars, buses, lorries etc. on the road that passes the station on your layout. Not the animals in the fields and the birds in the sky. Not the river flowing gently downstream under that wonderful bridge you spent a couple of weeks building. Not the people who populate your layout and for whom you run the passenger trains.
On a layout like mine (BR steam to diesel transition) the greatest amount of railway noise I would need is the sound of loose-coupled mineral wagons being shunted. The next greatest amount of noise is the sound of loose-coupled mineral trains starting and stopping; not just at the locomotive end, but all the way down the 16-foot length of the train.
In my original post, I was enthusing about the fact that the MTH locos had a choce of decoder or not, and that the sound chip had station anouncements.!!!! I have no idea of the qualikty, but as soon as they are released I will post the results. I have one BoB with a Soundtrax chip in it, and although its good, I somewhat agree with John S. in so far its the only thing with sound on the layout. I suppose if you want to do it propoarly, we must wait for the surrounsound unit or similar, where you can program church bells, waterfalls etc in specific locations, or buy a bunch of old cassette decks!! Rob
Quite, and if you fancy station announcements putting speakers in your station buildings and connecting up to a tape deck is much easier and more prototypical than having the station announcements made by the loco, which seems o nonsensical idea. Keith Make friends in the hobby. Visit Garratt photos for the big steam lovers.
PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.