Darren J Longhorn wrote:-
It's dads who buy train sets. It's dads who set them up and very often dads that play with them. Modern kids have an attention span of about 30 seconds. The only reason I got back into the hobby was because the model railway magazines were next to the die cast collector's magazines at WH Smith & Son. It can't be hereditary as none of my sons was ever remotely interested in railways, preferring fishing and football in which I have never had an interest.
(kim)
That's a very sweeping generalisation. I certainly didn't buy my son's "trains sets" to play with myself (even though I had a layout as a kid, I'm not really interested in railway modelling now), but because he asked for them. He decided he wanted a permanent layout on his own, after being taken to an exhibition. He asked me to take him to the expiation after his grandparents told him about it.
Railways and railway modelling is such an uncool thing to be interested in these days, that beyond about age 6, very few kids are likely to be active in the hobby unless they have a parent at home who is interested enough to tell them it's OK. Unfortunately, interest in trains is viewed by school-age kids as either babyish or (worse) geekish. That was the case 25 years ago when I was 12, but it is much worse now (I have kids 14,8 and 6 so I know what the attitudes amongst them and their friends are). I'm pretty sure that it's one of the mains reason for the minority nature of our hobby now.
Perhaps regular TV adverts would go somewhere towards correcting that. It's a long time since I've seen a Hornby advert on TV, but I've noticed an increase in adverts for trainsets in magazines and junk-mail catalogues, so maybe there is an increase in interest - possibly off the back of the Hoggwarts sets and recent news abot the Flying Scotsman.
Adrian
I have seen several adverts recently on Channel 4 for the live-steam Hornby Mallard. Though at ~£500 and full of hot steam and fancy precision engineering (electronics and mechanical), its hardly a child's toy train.
- Nigel
Adrian Bradshaw wrote:-
There's been a general move away from the children's toy pages and towards the adult gift section, witness the cuff-link set at Marks & Spencers.
(kim)
...which is fine in the short term, but it doesn't help bring in new-blood. If that doesn't happen, then in 25 years, Hornby won't have much of a market left.
Adrian
Adrian Bradshaw wrote:-
So you're saying anyone who didn't play with Thomas the Tank Engine when he was three years old can't develop a serious interest in railways when he is much older?
That's like saying someone who never played with Lego bricks can never be interested in architecture or someone who never played with dolls can never become a fashion designer.
(kim)
"Mark Thornton" wrote
The hobby's been dying out for donkey's years if you listen to all the speculation, however we're still here, with two major manufacturers for OO-scale instead of the traditional one, and with more new product than we could possibly have dreamed about just ten years ago.
John.
Of course not. Thats clearly ridiculous I have no doubt that some people do suddenly become interested in railways at the age of 30 or 40, but I'd venture to suggest that without a seed of interest in their childhood, that is far less likely.
- and anyway, I'm not talking about Thomas the Tank Engine. If you had read my previous post in this thread, you would know that I am talking about the next age-group up from there (6 and up perhaps) for whom railways are seen as uncool for a variety of reasons - Thomas the Tank is probably one of those reasons, as is the minority nature of the hobby.
Sigh... It has become very popular here and elsewhere to take a perfectly reasonable comment from someone, distort it, then take it to its illogical extreme in order to make the original suggestion sound ridiculous. You might not agree with what I say, but please try to answer my post rather than one which was never made.
Adrian
One and a half if you count Lima ;-)
My experience of clubs for other interests is that those which put more effort into attracting new participants seem to have less trouble with finance. In fact one club had the 'problem' that for several years in a row deliberate attempts to subsidize the Christmas dinner failed --- it continued to make a surplus.
Mark Thornton
Hummm, I had an extensive train-set that became a layout when I was younger, learnt a lot of useful small scale technical stuff in the process, left home and dad gave it all away to various others down the years. SWTSMBO got me interested again when she told me she wanted a train-set as a kid, so she got an F4 and a few secondhand bits one christmas, next birthday a pug and a bogie flat (with a bracelet) appeared from the tunnel (behind the sofa). Then in toys-r-us we spotted a bargain thomas and percy set for 30 quid, with trucks, coaches and loads of track/controlled (retail was 80 quid but hadn't sold out), so we got that for the youngests birthday, he was into thomas, eldest hadn't expressed an interest. This led to his brother wanting a train, a secondhand bachman pannier that still doesn't run right. At this point I though what the hell and joined in again, my fleet is mainly GWR, with a few others inc Southern, SWTSMBO GWR and LMS, eldests LNER and LMS, youngests Thomas, GWR, LMS, LNER, modern diesels and all sorts. Layout, still in the planning stage, though the portable 6x4 is still used when time and space permits.
The youngest still has the interest, eldest playstation/football (don't start me on football, the biggest distractor of the populace), SWTSMBO sort of but operator/scenics only, me its one of the few things I find relaxing. Exhibitions, great for my Beaver Scouts (if I know in time) to visit, but not if cramped, how many get into it, few but then with everything else going on thats not surprising, how many later in life having seen it and remembering enjoying seeing trains running around????
Liked the mevagissy (can't spell in cornish) layout, the kids even more so, and the interesting displays around the place, which they didn't. But listening to others there they were not into modelling, but it relit an interest in some that might just be enough to get them started again!
Niel.
On the face of it Ian that seems to be a reasonble argument, but I took a son and two daughters to exhibitions for years, before Thomas and animal identification was thought of. Operation kept their interest.
I travelled to the MRC show in 1964 with one of our students who was going to visit his girl friend. He'd never heard of model railway exhibitions, came along to see what it was all about, bought a whitemetal Toad kit and never looked back. At the Ayr show this year I spent half an hour talking to a grandmother and mother who had been looking for something to do with two boys. They left with a starter kit and some bits to make it more exciting. The boys had never expressed any interest in "trains".
With the exception of a few places like Gainsborough I don't see much sharing of knowledge of operational procedures. The hobby is being driven by appearance rather than working timetables. Which is why Mark started this thread.
Ken.
Wonderful! Hope that was deliberate and not a spellchecker error.
Ken.
'fraid not.
This was an oft-heard refrain when I was active in scale modelling some
15 years ago. According to some of the older blokes, the hobby was going to disappear if we didn't get "the kids" involved. Well, the kids still aren't involved to any great extent, and yet the hobby continues to thrive.The thought occurs to me that the larger manufacturers must do of market research. The fact that they have not specifically targetted children in their marketing suggests they may know something the doom-sayers don't.
Of course they will. It just won't be children, just as it isn't now.
But today's children will be approaching middle age in 25 years...
That's what I was trying to say. I'd be very surprised if the vast majority middle-aged modellers of today didn't have some contact with model railways in their childhood. It's a fairly well documented phenomena whereby many (my self included) dabbled with model (and real) railways until mid-teens until hormones dictated a switch to women and beer - only to return to the hobby their thirties or beyond.
Adrian
It's declined at the toy end and grown at the adult end, but I still think that a high percentage of todays "serious" modellers are the ones who had the toys in the 60s, 70s and 80s. I don't think the hobby is any danger just yet - there are still people like me re-starting their interest who had Hornby and Lima stuff 25 years ago. What worries me is that over the last 15 years or so, kids in general haven't had trainsets in the same numbers as they did in the 70s and 80s. Of course not every adult modeller will have started with a trainset, but I'd wager that the majority did. A large part of the reason for my interest in railways and railway modelling is nostalgia. People born 10 years after me are far less likely to have that nostalgic interest.
The range and improved quality are down to a much older group of people with significant levels of disposable income. The improvements in quality and detail are very welcome, but I think Hornby et al would be well advised to encourage the trainset market too, both as a direct route into the hobby and as a seed for later interest. Hopefully the new Bachmann DCC sets are an indication that they DO take that market seriously.
Adrian
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