Death nell of Nitro??

Try LIPOS. Three flights on one charge.

And, if it DOES work, where will their stock be?

| And, if it DOES work, where will their stock be?

Probably somewhere close to my stock when I get my anti-gravity machine working. Their odds are probably a little better, though I don't know how much better.

Still, the claims given are very vague. You can't tell what they're comparing to.

| > Vaporware! Another bunch looking for government development $ or | > naive investors. Take a look at their stock - $1 to $4 depending | > on their latest press release.

I fly electric, glow, and gas. I like 'em all but love the gasoline engines on big airplanes the best. Cheap fuel, reliable engines, and airplanes big enough for my old eyes to see and they're more gentle in the wind. When I want some wild fun though, I break out my 3D foamy with a brushless on it! I don't think internal combustion engines will ever go away in the sport. Electrics have added another fascinating dimension. The formulas needed to figure out electrics still escape me though! One manufacturer's web site (don't remember which one) is doing it right. They tell you that if your airplane required a .15 glow engine, that you would need X motor, Y controller, and Z batteries. I think when the electrics industry wakes up and starts telling you what you need rather than dazzling you with Watts, Volts, and Amps, then they'll break the electrics market wide open.

Yep, the chinese are getting in the act! They've been providing the cheapest Nicads and Nickle Metal cells for a long time. As soon as they tool up in earnest to make Lipos, watch out!

Ed, one other change in the two years you've been away is the increasing use of the word "nitro" to describe things powered by glow engines - even if running on "straight" fuel! It seems to be creeping in from the r/c car world, where cars are either electric or "nitro" powered. I think that's the meaning of "nitro" that the original poster had in mind (rather than nitromethane.)

Not so much of a knell in itself but you guys gotta see this electric advancement. Its unreal.

Ya had to mention the hike, didnt ya?

One pack for several planes: You get to fly one plane. I usually fly a couple of different planes per session. One pack means one flight also, whatever plane it is in. LiPo packs for my Slow Stick brushless cost nearly 50 bones a pop. Granted they are coming down in price. I am not really pooh-poohing electrics but for me at least they will never replace glow. I plan to build a Birdie Ten kit I acquired and go brushless with it (once I manage to scrap up the $250+ for motor, ESC, and LiPos) but I could fly that same plane with a $50 glow engine. And I like the noise and smell of glow.

I wish you could remember what site it was!

So...it can move around between planes. I get abouyt half an hopur total flying time.

I have three packs of three capacities so I can get 1 1/2 hours total flying time on up to 6 models, but I wouldn't bother to take em all along.

Thats the real answer.

Nothing wrong in that eiher, but all those complaining about electrics for OTHR reasons are on shaky ground.

LIPOS will give you about three tankfuls of flying time per charge, and cost nothing to rechrage.

Performance is up there with glo if you want it.

The motors can be ridiculously cheap. unless you want top performance.

The ESC's cost little more than a throttle servo unless you insist on brushless.

Only bateries cost. and thats set to change.

Turn round time between flights, and starting is almost instantaneous.

dead sticks are predictable (battery runs out) not something that happens unexcpectedly.

Noise is mostly far lower.

No gunk on the model.

Its true tht anything mch over .25 size gets raher expensive, but inmy case anything over .25 size means I hae to trek up to a proper 'club' and stand in line so its expensive in terms of the trip anyway.

Liek it costs me $30 to drive to teh 'nitro' clunb site and back.

>

If you DO invest and it DOES work you MIGHT be rich. Of course you CAN play the lottery and IF you win you will be very rich.

Red S.

| LIPOS will give you about three tankfuls of flying time per charge, and | cost nothing to rechrage.

That totally depends on the model, and how you fly it. And on the size of the tank you're comparing to.

If it's a lazy park flier, sure, you might get 45 minute flights. But other planes, even lipo powered, may be lucky to get 10 minute flights.

| Performance is up there with glo if you want it.

s/if you want it/if you can afford it/ | The motors can be ridiculously cheap. unless you want top performance.

Brushed motors can be ridiculously cheap. But good motors, even good brushed motors, are a lot more. It starts getting expensive long before you get to top performance.

(Still, once you get above park flier size, it's the batteries that really eat you up, not the rest of the power train.)

| The ESC's cost little more than a throttle servo unless you insist on | brushless.

If by `little more' you mean `only 3x as much', sure. You can get decent standard sized servos for $9, or micros for $13. For a speed

400 motor, you probably want at least a 20 amp ESC, and those are generally $30 and up, though it does look like GWS is coming out with some cheaper ones.

| Only bateries cost. and thats set to change.

Batteries may cost the most, but the rest is hardly free.

Ultimately, if you want any sort of performance, you end up with brushless motors. Which is fine -- it saves you money on batteries too, because they're more efficient.

| Its true tht anything mch over .25 size gets raher expensive, but inmy | case anything over .25 size means I hae to trek up to a proper 'club' | and stand in line so its expensive in terms of the trip anyway.

It's not even .25 size. Anything above 0.10 size starts costing ...

Don't get me wrong. I love my electrics, and I fly them far more than my glow planes now. But glow still has some big advantages, and will for the immediate future. Once lipo costs come down, look out!

| I fly electric, glow, and gas. I like 'em all but love the gasoline engines | on big airplanes the best. Cheap fuel, reliable engines, and airplanes big | enough for my old eyes to see and they're more gentle in the wind. When I | want some wild fun though, I break out my 3D foamy with a brushless on it! I | don't think internal combustion engines will ever go away in the sport.

Well, look at it this way -- R/C has pretty much taken C/L's thunder, but C/L is still around, isn't it? Free Flight is too.

| Electrics have added another fascinating dimension. The formulas needed to | figure out electrics still escape me though! One manufacturer's web site | (don't remember which one) is doing it right. They tell you that if your | airplane required a .15 glow engine, that you would need X motor, Y | controller, and Z batteries. I think when the electrics industry wakes up | and starts telling you what you need rather than dazzling you with Watts, | Volts, and Amps, then they'll break the electrics market wide open.

... except that it's not that simple.

It's not even that simple for a glow engine. Sure, the plane design may call for a 0.30 to 0.55 sized engine, but then you have to pick an appropriate prop. Sure, the engine has some suggested props, but which prop is `best' will depend on the plane and how you fly.

The reason that you can usually just slap any engine (in the suggested range) and prop onto a plane and get it to fly OK is because glow engines usually produce more power for a given weight than cheap electric gear, so there's more room for error.

If you take a good brushless motor and good lipo batteries and a good prop, you can put that onto lots of planes and it'll work OK. But if you've got a $2 brushed motor and a NiMH pack, that's only likely to perform acceptably well on a few specific planes

In any event, if somebody gives you a chart that says `you have a 0.15 engine? Replace it with this battery, this motor ...', they're not doing you any favors. They may make it easy, but your plane's performance is likely to suffer. And really, the formulas aren't that complex, especially if you use something like Motocalc.

Can't win if you don't play! ;^)

LiPos will be nearly 1/2 the current price very soon.

Sure you can. If they lose, the non-players have won :-)

On the contrary, that's how you _can_ win the lottery: take advantage of the reduced tax burden provided by lottery revenues without contributing to those revenues. Sounds like winning to me.

Lottery, n. A tax levied by US states on the math-impared.