Liability & responsibility of electrician?

StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt wrote:
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Oh really ? Lets see, if that was single phase it would be ~20 amps at 240. big deal. 3 phase, 20 / sqrt(3) = ~ 12 amps on the legs.
these are just off the top of my head still! Big deal!.
You're still in the dark.

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:12:04 -0700, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
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While a router is not as glamorous as a lathe or mill, I do believe they are still considered a machine. Controlled via CNC makes them <gasp> a CNC machine...
And yes, many of them have cords with plugs. Need pictures?

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:26:17 -0400, William Bagwell
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A little printer that cuts out stickers is technically a "CNC Machine" as well.
The term usually refers to much larger load devices, not your Sears sign router. Also, a good hint was that he had to have wiring ran for it.

On Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:29:53 -0700, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
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It would depend.
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"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement, reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"
Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno

On Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:56:26 -0700, Gunner Asch
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Absolutely not, you retarded fuck.
It has a micro-controller that translates the data on your computer to cut strokes. That IS the very definition of CNC. You are just so retarded that you think the term has only one meaning.
Sorry, but even though someone did not have to program each move, the computer does program each move, and that is done numerically.
You lose, yet again.

Nico Coesel wrote:
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Well then, the people you know aren't really electricians.
There's a lot more to the trade than stapling some Romex into a residence.

(Nico Coesel) wrote:
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Perhaps you don't work with many electricians. I work with electricians on a daily basis, and the large majority of them can run the wire to the machine, outlet, light fixture, what ever, but few of them have the ability to make sure it is 100% correct for the equipment powered. I have seen 480 volts wired to 208, and the reverse, single phase wired to 3 phase equipment, wrong rotation, (that had been verified correct by the electrician!), electricians reversing rotation in the equipment so some motors are correct, and some are reversed, you name it! That is where I come in, to double check phasing, verify incoming voltage is correct for the equipment, and to ensure the voltage taps in the equipment is set properly. Unless discussed before hand I would not assume the electrician checked to make sure the equipment was set up for the incoming power. Seems like the owners responsibility to me! Greg

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Which makes ALL of them a mere order taker, point to point wireman.
This was not such an installation. If new runs had to be installed, then the installer, if only a mere electrician, is already in over his head if he doesn't know about the equipment to be fed power to.

StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt wrote:
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No, actually, the equipment most likely had cords on it that already had proper plugs that were properly labeled on the twist locks them self's..
You see, these little details are not coming to light here, did the electrician hard wire the CNC to the service or did he simply supply a compatible source for the mating plug on the cord attached to the CNC ?
I don't know about a lot of other shops how ever, where we work, all of our machine shop equipment have twist lock plugs with cords on them and those that know anything about this, know that they can only be inserted in the proper receptacle.
In short, different service voltages have specified keyed plugs. If the CNC already had a plug connected to it, then the data required by the electrician is on the plug.. and that is as far as the electrician needs to go with that.
If an incorrect plug is in use that does not match the voltage of the equipment but may have been used in an area where voltage was upgraded and receptacles were not changed, then it's the fault of the shop owner for not spending the cash to correct that.

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 05:15:13 -0700, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
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Im not. Nor am I licensed. Yet I do the electrical work for many clients. And my business cards indicate that Im neither.
It has to do with how good you are, and that they know it.
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"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement, reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"
Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:41:29 -0700, Gunner Asch
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Does your work get inspected? (no, I do not mean by you, idiot)
You may be a professional something, but 'professional electrician' will not be the title.

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:23:54 -0700, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
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Oh of course it does. And passed every time for the past 12 yrs.
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Nor have I ever made that claim.
So am I just a "handyman"?
Gunner
"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement, reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"
Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno

or about Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:41:29 -0700 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
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    Electricity is like water: if it 'flows' in, it has to 'flow' out. Unlike water, though, it will take short cuts "out of the pipe".
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That it always has. Even if you have the blessing of the Treasury Wizards.
tschus pyotr - pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 02:04:47 -0700 (PDT), Larry The Snake Guy
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You're an idiot. If you are wiring POWER runs, you had better know what your loads are, and how they get connected.

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:26:35 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
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If it were wired to an outlet, I would agree.
A hard wired machine power run, however, should also include insuring that the machine you are hooking up is at least set properly for the voltage you are going to be bringing live on it. As you will have the panel for it open, you should make yourself aware of any voltage taps, so that you don't hook up say a 5% under voltage tap to a 5% or more overvoltage feed.
Any electrician that is a mere, dumb, brain dead wire terminator should be looking toward an industry where his mistakes have less of a catastrophic downside. If you do not take the time to at least examine what you are hooking up, you have no business in the industry.

On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 07:34:08 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@uakron.edu wrote:
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CNC machines are NOT 'house electrician' level work.
Where did you get the idea that this was a 'house installation'?

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You're nuts. Maybe at the end of a 100 yard long run. Maybe.
There is no reason, however, for the entire feed to a building to sag that far between loaded and unloaded.

StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt wrote:
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it's most likely the feed to the building is 480/460 and a transformer is being used. I don't know to many electric companies that will supply 240 3 phase any more.
I'd be willing to bet that the transformer came along with the move and that being the case, yes, it can sag abit when other equipment get going because I can't picture a huge xformer in use here.

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:30:37 -0400, Jamie
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More guess as you go bullshit.

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You're an idiot. That is like saying that if you hire an electrician to run 245Volts to your 120 volt microwave oven, he'll do it, and will not be at fault for doing something against the rules.
High power devices should never, repeat NEVER be hooked up merely "to the disconnect". It should ALWAYS be examined for its POWER panel connections to insure against improper attachment. PERIOD!
Goddamned cross posting retards! < reference to the OP.