Cheneys hunting buddy has a heart attack

Alcohol was actually involved, Cheney drank on that day.

Personally, I would not shoot guns after "a beer", as I tend to get drunk pretty quickly. Especially when I am tired and did not get enough sleep, as happens often.

With the circumstances as reported so far, I'd be inclined to disagree. A beer (the only alcohol I've seen reported with anything that sounds like reliability so far) "several" (I'm assuming "several" is a number greater than 2) hours before they hit the field is a non-issue, and even the sheriff's release specifically states that alcohol is not believed to be a factor.

So yes - At this point, we have an accidental/negligent shooting. Which implies to me recklessness and gross violation of safety standards, the most important one being "do not fire unless you are

What we have no evidence of (and a specific statement contrary to such speculation made by a LEO) so far is a drunk gunman.

Now this little nugget bothers me. People talk about making a mountain out of a molehill...

With the exception of one article on the incident - I think it accompanied the release of the Game Warden's report on the shooting - it seems that everybody who has mentioned the license issue has forgotten to also mention that Dick sent one of his SS guys to get the stamp for quail, but apparently the SS guy, through misunderstanding, non-hunter ignorance, confusion, or some other reason, came back with a stamp that covered goose, rather than quail - A stamp that Dick already had, is slightly more expensive than the correct one, and which doesn't do anything useful if you have more than one of them.

I'd hardly call that poaching. At least, not unless I was trying desperately hard to find an excuse to be a complete asshole. A clerical mixup, certainly. But poaching? Gimme a break.

(And for the record, no, I'm no fan of either Dick or GW, but come on... let's try to be at least a *LITTLE* realistic in how we try to slag them, huh?)

"rigger" wrote

First, there is NO insurance that safety procedures will work.

But, it works something like this:

You hunt alone.

If you choose to hunt with someone, it had damn better be with someone you have hunted with before and know what they will do IN EVERY SITUATION. You still have to have communication (radios) and a plan of when this happens we do this. When that happens we do that. You talk about it before you go out. You talk about it during the hunt. You talk about it after it is over. You are putting your life in someone else's hands. You talk about it.

And, as in the case in our state, you either stay far apart enough not to be able to shoot the other person, or close enough so that you can hear the other person say, "He's yours" or he can hear you say "He's mine." As close as ten feet. Before that, however, you have decided that everything to the left of center is his, everything to the right of center is yours. If you DO hunt in a line, you have zones of fire. But, bottom line, you are betting that your buddy who has a gun in his hand is going to follow the rules and not screw up and cost you your life or at least your eyesight.

Any time you are dicking around out there with things that can kill you, you have to have a plan, or you just don't go out.

That is what happened to these Rubes.

Hey! Let's go hunting! That sounds like fun!

Doesn't sound to me like any of them had a clue, even though reports say they were "experienced" hunters, or had been hunting before. I know lots of guys who have "been hunting before" and I wouldn't go with them if my job depended on it. And some of them have been hunting for years. I have ONE person I go quail hunting with. I am asked again and again to go with people or to take people. I just make excuses because my health and safety are important to me. I'm funny like that. My buddy and I went six times this past year in Southern Nevada. I never even had one time that I heard shot fly by me, which is a common occurrence for most hunters. We got our s*it down and together. And we use the Rino GPS systems.

It all comes down to the hunter. They're the one who pulls the trigger. For one guy to run up on the shooters, and then another to shoot at an uncertain target, Holy Mary, pray for us. These people are in charge of our country.

Steve

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote

Oh, puhleeze. Can we just stick to the subject and not wander off into "this Administration" crap?

So, is it tough being a genius?

Again, PUHLEEZE!

I am confused. You make references to "this Administration", yet don't mention anything about Mary Jo Kopechne.

Ayup. We all have toilet paper on our shoes.

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote

Really. Good thing it wasn't a Democrat. A photog and two press people would have been shot too during the unloading of the alleged gun.

Trouble is, those who are best qualified to run our country are busy being truck drivers and hairdressers.

Steve

Yes, they're obliged to remember that someone is behind them. I doubt if we'll ever hear the truth about this accident, or whether it was a pile of bad luck or negligence, but the stories I've heard from Cheney's friends sound pretty fishy to me.

I was discussing this with another long-experienced hunter today, this one from Pennsylvania, and we both concluded that something is out of whack. In my experience, and under my training to train for NRA Safe Hunters, the only way an accident like that can happen is if everyone makes a mistake. From what I'm hearing about the "protocols" used in southern Bobwhite quail hunting, someone can get shot if just ONE person makes a mistake. If that's their "protocol," then their protocol and their tradition sucks big time.

In general, three hunters in a line, behind dogs flushing quail, requires paying close attention to the angles where you can swing to follow a bird. I've never heard of hunters swinging *behind* them as a matter of acceptable operating procedure -- especially when there are other people out there, including the dog handler, the SS people, and the owner of the land. I remember drawing those segments on a board, and the entire range for the line of hunters was 180 degrees, stopping at a line perpendicular to the hunters. That's the way I've always hunted. That's the way everyone I've ever known hunts -- at least, the ones I've seen with a gun.

Bobwhites flush in all directions and you really have to pay attention when you're out there with other people. Where this lawyer actually was, and how far around Cheney swung to follow a bird, we may never know. But if the lawyer was behind that perpendicular line, and if those plantation hunters think it's OK to swing behind the line, then they're nuts. Don't be surprised, BTW, if they are a little nuts.

The only reason to keep this quiet was to make sure all of the political bases were covered. My guess is that there was more buzzing going on between Washington and the hunt than a hive full of angry bees.

-- Ed Huntress

Thanks, I always ignore personal insults, I have been on usenet for quite long.

It turns out that Cheney indeed was drinking prior to hunting, however, it also seems that he successfully avoided getting his blood alcohol tested within the time window when it could be tested. Wanting to avoid blood test could well have been the real reason why he delayed notification about the incident.

While this is true, some of the problems such as losing the Iraq war, cannot be solved by installing "effective people".

And maybe confuse George with a wild turkey or something... gasp...

"Ed Huntress" wrote

I think your first idea is right. _Something_ needed to be covered up, and my guess is that it was something totally _unrelated_ to guns or booze. Like, maybe, the complete roster of the hunting party. I've heard of Chenney, his victim, and a former ambassador to Switzerland. Was someone else there? Maybe someone whose presence, if publicized, would be even _more_ politically embarassing than Deadeye Dick's rimshot?

Your second notion may be right, too. But if the story _is_ as plain-vanilla as we've been told, it seems all too likely that Dick's delusions of adequacy simply outweighed his respect for the Constitutional pecking order. Cheney has always considered himself Dubya's minder, and a little hunting accident wasn't going to change that.

-- TP

I'm no hunter, but I had always assumed there was kind of an implied rule to not shoot unless you knew where your buddies were. Is it common practice for hunters to split up and continue hunting without knowing where the others are?

Now THAT's the kind of thinking I like!

Let's see - Saudi Prince? Halliburton VP? French Ambassador? Iragi insider? Iranian turncoat? Israeli scientist?

Watch out TonyP, they WILL be out to get you if you keep on seeing thru the smoke and mirrors like that.

Karl P

The hunting party probably included a space alien from the mother ship. Do do do do....

I totally agree.

Some very interesting concepts have been brought up by the press:

That Cheney shot the lawyer to send a message go Scooter Libby that he better not squeal.

That the lawyer has information about Roswell that he was going to leak.

That Cheney was out of lawyer jokes, and had to do SOMETHING.

That it was to draw the attention away from Iraq.

That Cheney was suspecting an affair between the lawyer and Cheney's dog.

Oh, there's a lot more. And there will be a lot more.

Don't you love having a "press" that is interested in the facts of who, what, why, when and how instead of just sensationalism?

I sure do.

Steve

Ok, Mister, it has been several days and not a single peep from Gunner!

In emergency session Congress has approved $12 million to investigate this incident.

Come on, Ed. 'Fess up! Where's the body?

Richard

Actually, two of them are from the "press". The others will be released when they wear out these two. This could go on for years.

I hear there is a team that is now trying to prove the Republicans are implicated in the Jimmy Hoffa and Mary Jo Kopechne cases, and that they have been working on every other unsolved case trying to link them to the evil Republicans.

Check The National Enquirer or Star to keep up to speed.

Or just keep reading the "reports" here from the "reporters" here.

Remember, if it's on Usenet, it HAS to be the truth! Otherwise, they wouldn't let it be printed.

Just like TV news.

Steve

Oh, there's more stories to come out of the garlic press I tell yuh. We're not stopping here. Vice President Hal Strangelove is up to something. I just know it ! (if only I could shake that black helicopter that keeps following me.)

Are any of those concepts/jokes actually from the "press" ? I suspect the only press they own is a garlic press.

All very funny but does anyone know if a regular (real) investigation was held? I'd especially be interested if they had argued before the shooting. ;) Perhaps a little look into possible financial dealings between them? Etc.?

I'm sure giving Cheney a pass on the quail stamp because he had a good excuse was justified because I'm sure this is the same treatment everyone gets.;) This same "excuse" theory won't (or shouldn't) hold up, however, in hindering the investigation of a shooting incident. IMHO

dennis in nca

dennis in nca

I think he goes out to do his Mad Max thing during the week.

dennis in nca