OT My second electric bike

wrote:


Just sold a perfectly serviceable original 1943 CCM about 4 years ago.
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On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 21:09:10 -0000 (UTC), John Doe

I've likely built more than you - including a fully functional electric car AND an electric assist bicycle that WAS legal.
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On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 14:01:56 -0000 (UTC), John Doe

Can't remember if he ever posted photos. But he definitely built one.
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On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 14:59:40 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
Everybody has to start somewhere! <chuckle> Anyway, it doesn't change the fact that as much as I'm not a Clare fan (he's whacko about sky daddy), there's no doubt in my mind that he built an electric car. He's written about the subject knowledgeably, although I can't recall the details. It was probably the typical lead acid battery limited usability thing.
Readers who are interested in DIY electric vehicles will enjoy this guy's site and videos. http://www.electricsamba.com/ Among other things, he's building Tesla style 18650 cell packs with individual fuses.
Another good one is here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBMnHYaymHU
Interesting approach.
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On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 16:45:00 -0000 (UTC), John Doe

Why are you doubling down on your stupidity instead of doing a simple search? Here is how it's done, dipshit. https://groups.google.com/forum /#!search/clare$20snyder$20electric$20car
Lots of posts from Clare on the subject, including this one http://tinyurl.com/j8nl5bc
"I built an EV on a 75 Fiat 128 coupe platform in the late 70s, using GC batteries. 8 6 volt units provided power to a converted aircraft generator for a maximum range of 50 miles at 30MPH or 30 miles at 50 MPH. Charging cost was about $0.25 per charge then - about three times that now. Battery cost was high, and life was low.
You definitely do NOT want to use a heavy vehicle. You want the lowest rolling resistanc, lowest drag, lowest weight vehicle you can find. Hense the use of the Fiat. Chevettes, Cicics, Escorts, and Geo Metros (Suzuki) are also good candidates.
If I was doing it again, I would go for a little Kubota or Yanmar doozle with a series/parallel hybrid system. The Yanmar would run a genny to produce electricity for the batteries to run the car at low and variable speed in town - with the doozle running at maximum efficiency. When up to speed, the doozle would take over the job of driving the car, and if any energy was left over it would run the genny. If more power was required than the doozle could put out, the batteries would take over, aiding the doozle. If the motor/genny could be combined, and run through some sort of a transfer case, a relatively compact, efficient unit would result."
In addition, I know Clare from way back posting about homebuilt aircraft. He knows a lot. I only know you from your stupid and pointless header posts. And judging solely by those, you are an idiot.
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wrote:

And unlike many others on these lists - I've never posted under anything but my true name - no nym shifting.
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On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 16:45:00 -0000 (UTC), John Doe

Used an aircraft generator for the motor - ran it through Fiat 128 transmission with no clutch - off 8 GC2H 250Ah golf cart batteries with diode switching between 24 and 48 volts,using a drum switch on the accellerator to start on 24 volts through a stainless steel ribon resistor, then short the resistor, then switch to 48 volts through the resiator, then short the reisitor, then weeken the feild current to cause the motor speed to increase from there. Fifty miles on a charge at 30MPH and 30 miles at 30 mph. I still have the motor and a few of the contactors , the main circuit breaker, and the switching diode..
It was based on a 1975 Fiat 128 Sport Coupe like this one:
https://motorbase.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2006/06/29/fs_p06_12_06_13.26_1_.jpg
painted refrigerator white and electric blue and was called the ElectraMobile - with the name plate made up from a Buick Electra and the back part of an Oldsmobile emblem joined together.. The rear suspension was beefed up with the installation of a 128 Fiat station wagon transverse leaf to support the 6 batteries ib the trunk (in a frame installed where the gas tank and spare tire formerly resided) with the other 2 batteries under the hood up front - and the front coils shortened to bring the front end back doun to where it belonged after removing the 1300ccOHC engine and replacing it with the generator.. I used a 3 phase magnetic trip breaker installed in place of the console at the overload protection / emergency disconnect device - the whole thing was wired with welding cable except the inter-battery connections that were made of several thicknesses of copper strips.
Charging was accomplished with the 2 banks of batteries in parallel using the charger from a Sebring Vanguard UrbaCar with a hydro meter converted to run off 120 volts by using a 120/240 transformer to supply the voltage measurement component for the Kwh meter..
Full charge took about 8 hours on a 15 amp circuit. Back in the day,a full charge cost just over $0.25. At today's peak rates it would be closer to $3.50 (about 7KwH)
I don't have any digital pictures to post but one day I'll dig out the old slides and digitize one and put ir on my web site.
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On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 14:01:56 -0000 (UTC), John Doe

Built it back in '77 It's been gone a long time now
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wrote:

I was on the team that built these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EN-V
--jsw
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On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 14:40:24 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"

Pretty much a fancy enclosed electric wheel-chair - but still too bad it was never commercialized.
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wrote:

It was a technology demonstrator. Self-balancing isn't the answer to everything but it does provide remarkable agility from an extremely simple chassis, like the Wowwee Miposaur robot. http://wowwee.com/miposaur/
No steering, no brakes, just two rigidly mounted motors and electronics.
This is the next model: http://www.cars2driver.info/2016/05/chevrolet-en-v-20-4-wheels-car-from.html
--jsw
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On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 15:52:55 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Where did the new batch of trolls and freaks come from? Do you know these guys? Where are they posting from?
--
Ed Huntress

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On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 17:18:46 -0400, Ed Huntress

I only see one guy I don't recognize. But I'm only reading rcm. If you see a nym that's a song title, that's me. :)
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On Mon, 13 Jun 2016 07:25:44 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Yeash, I figured that, but there are some really strange ones in the thread, along with a couple of NGs we don't usually see.
Anyway, it's pretty easy just to pass it all over.
--
Ed Huntress

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On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 14:24:15 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Just google claresnyder electric fiat 128 and you will get quite a few hits, including this one from 1996 -----
>I'd like to calculate the hp requirements for a car at a >given speed. What is the formula for that. Assume I already >know the Cd. Also what is the typical hp loss through the >drivetrain (manual transmission) and what is the typical >rolling resistance. I imagine this last one goes up >exponentially with speed too, but would like a more definite >answer.

THe question of horsepower requirement is not a simple one. Tire rolling resistance itself is not a cut and dried calculation, and it is one of the simpler ones. The rolling resistance drops dramaticly with warm-up, and increases with speed and load. The amount of tread left on the tire makes a difference, as does the tire construction. Steel radials have the lowest RR, and increase the least with speed.Up to about 40MPH, the RR coefficient stays about consta/nt with radial and bias/belted tires. The radial runs about .012, with the bias belted about .014. A bias tire starts at about .013, but starts to rise immediately. By 70MPH, the Bias tire has reached almost .02. The Bias Belted is almost .016, and the radial is almost .014
The effect of warmup is also extensive, with a cold tire taking about 1.4 times as much as a tire having run 20 miles under load (reached 100F operating temp and increased pressure of 5PSI)
Load increases the rolling resistance in a linear fashion On a new bias tire, the Crr of .012 at a light load .ncreases to .014 at 20% loa/d, .016 at 40%, .020 at 60%, .022 at 80%, and .024 at 100%. This is at full rated pressure. With worn tread, this increase is less than half.
Brake drag also comes into the picture, Disk brakes and self adjusting drum brakes increase the drag. With the GM X car, they reduced disk brake drag from 2.0 ft.lb to 0.5 ft lb drag, according to GM engineers, but real world testing showed drag of about 1.5 ft lb. Factored with the radius of the wheel, etc, this amounts to 1.7 lbs of rolling resistance per brake, or an increase in CRR of .002 to .004 for vehicles with disk brakes. Self adjusting drums are about equal, and manually adjusted brakes can be less than.half, or .001 to .002 CRR increase.
Alignment adds to the resistance as well, with a well set up vehicle adding a CRR of roughly .001
Aero drag has fewer variables. If you know the CD, and the frontal area, Aero Drag = CD X A (in sq ft) X (mph)^2/391
The CD of a ford pinto was about .5, with 19.4 sq ft frontal area. A chevette was .502 and 18.99 The Rabbit was .459 and 19.59. The beetle was .458, and less than 19 sq ft.,
Aero drag for winds has to be added to this. iThe factor Kw is calculated as (0.98(W/V)^2 + 0.63 (W/V)) CD(M)/CD -0.40(W/V)
W= average wind speed,V= vehicle speed Cd(m) is the maximum CD for any yaw angle relative to the wind, This is typically about 1.4 for a sedan, 1.2 for wagons and hatchbacks, and about 1.6 for more slender vehicles. Climbing and accelleration requirements are dependent almost totally on weight. For acceleration,, the formula is Faccel=Kr x gvw x a/21.94 = gvw x Ka where acel in mph/sec, and Kr accounts for inertia of rotating masses. Kr=1 + (0.04 + 0.0025 i^2) for an internal combustion engined car. The .04 reflects the inertia of wheels and tires,, whilke the .0025 reflects the rotating engine and driveline parts that rotate at i times the speed of the wheels (rear drive ratio) This usually works out to about 1.06 to 1.2
Climbing power , or Fclimb= gvw X Kc. The Kc is roughly equal to percent grade, for all intents and purposes.
These calculations tell you what TRACTIVE FORCE is required. This still has to be converted to horsepower.
This information was extrapalated from the book EV Engineering Guidebook: EV conversions for the 80's by Paul R Shipps, of 3E Vehicles, Box 19409, San Diego Ca 92119.
There is a lot more in the book. See if it is still available if you are interested.
I got involved in this when I electrified a '75 Fiat 128L coupe a number of years back. 8 HP was adequate around town. (electric motor - high torque at low RPM)
Clare Snyder, Class "A" Licenced Auto Mechanic Recycled as a Computer Solution Provider Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
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On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 12:42:23 -0000 (UTC), John Doe

And you still have an "illegal motorcycle" when you are done. It's not a legal elecrtric assist bycycle - and since it doesn't have dot approved tires and proper brakes it's not a motorcycle. You also don't have DOT approved lighting or anything else required to make it either a motorcycle or a scooter - and without pedals it's not a moped.
It's just an abortion - a useless toy that is illegal to use on the road.
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On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 12:42:23 -0000 (UTC), John Doe

Bullshit. You are an unintelligent dolt.
Humans can produce about 1.2 HP for a very short burst period. They can typically produce about 0.1 HP steady state... and go for miles... at several tens of miles an hour.
If your inane drill motor and battery setup cannot do that, it is a foolish endeavor.
There are plenty of REAL solutions already in the channel and you can buy the raw motor and attach it any way you like if you have some lame idiot thing against pre-designed solutions.
Do some math for a change, punk.
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On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 18:59:04 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

Huh? At "several tens of miles an hour" on 0.1 HP? Someone should have told me that when I got my AYH Century in 1965. It took me close to 13 hours to pedal 100 miles, and I also raced bicycles in road sprints, so I had decent horsepower.

It sounds more like a fun experiment to satisfy one's curiosity.

Doing math isn't much fun. Building things to experiment with can be a lot of fun.
--
Ed Huntress

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On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 22:52:44 -0400, Ed Huntress

Whoops, memory fails: that was a double century on flat ground (Princeton, NJ to Cape May Courthouse and back.) I did the century in something like 6 hours. Then we rode back for the double century.
--
Ed Huntress


>
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On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 22:42:57 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca Gave us:

When I said that he called me a troll.
He is worse than Donald J. Trump in that respect.
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