OT Wasted lives

Larry Jaques wrote:
snip


I thought that was supposed to be the lesser of two weavels...
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You haven't been paying much attention. Artillery and "airborne" artillery (whatever the hell that is!) has been GPS guided for several years now. The current favorite in dropped bombs is the SDB, Small Diameter Bomb, a 250 pound cutie that gets regularly slid down the unlubricated smoke hole of many an unhappy camel fucker. Takes out a single dwelling (or just a couple rooms of something bigger) and nothing more. GPS guided weaponry has been gaining in popularity for many, many years lately on account of the goal of minimizing collateral damage, including casualties. It's not something the foamy mouth liberals want to envision, that the military is actually trying to kill _less_ people, not more, all with the direction of the current administration.
If you weren't so busy focusing on how bad you'd like the news to be, you'd learn something new and refreshing.
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Carl McIver wrote:

Maybe the last time you went in for finger surgery you thought that cutting off the wrong arm was close enough, for me it ain't.
Surgical: Bad guy sits down at dinner with family, bad guy dead, innocents get blood and guts on them.
How to make a bunch of new terrorists: Bad guy sits down at table, blow up house, killing a half dozen innocents. Made worse when the targeting is abased on BAD intel. We are often fed info on 'jihadists' just to settle private scores.
"Airborne artillery" is AC-130 gunships used nightly in operations over Baghdad, and regular artillery was used on neighborhoods just a few weeks ago in Baghdad.
You think a bomb is 'cute', that alone speaks volumes.

RIIIGHT! You mean the same guys that brought us Abu Ghraib, failed utterly at reconstruction, and still have not secured the borders are trying to save lives...Wanna buy a bridge?

I want good news, but I'm forced to deal with what is really happening there.
New and refreshing would be the administration admitting that this is a complete clusterfuck and starting to figure out how to get out of it.
And nobody here has yet figured out what 'winning' this fiasco is supposed to look like.
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Gunner wrote:

SO, How much do you know about what your neighbors are doing? Is that why you slink around the neighborhood at night peeking in the windows? I just thought it was because you are a nosy Republican Pervert. Have you taken it upon yourself to kill your neighbors if they do something that you feel might not be approved by the authorities? Have you run background checks on all the occupants of every double-wide in your trailer park?
Apparently, to Gunner, you have no right to be private in your own home or business in case you pose a threat he needs to neutralize to protect himself.
If you had a real job, how would you keep track of all the goings on?
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wrote:

Snicker...off your meds again eh Stuart?
Gunner
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for Western civilization as it commits suicide" - James Burnham
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Gunner wrote:

I didn't know they had meds for stupidity. :(
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
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On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 14:52:48 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"

Oh Well Said! Sir...well said indeed!!
Gunner
Political Correctness
A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
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Gunner wrote:

You know me: i don't beat around the bush. I wrap a chain around it and use my truck to pull it out, roots and all! ;-)
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
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That is easily addressed. You preemptively kill the people who refuse or resist inspection. That's harsh, but once the bombs start dropping it would be an acceptable approach to a lot of people.
Of course the people the bomb-droppers are targeting will resist by killing their nosy neighbors, both in retaliation and preemptively.
IOW, I think that quite a few Iraqis have adopted Mr Gunner's approach over the last few years. It clearly improved the situation from the perspective of Hezbollah, Iran, North Korea, and al Queda all of whom benefit from the US fighting Iraqis instead of themselves.
--

FF


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On 9 Mar 2007 08:47:24 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote:

You two pathetic individuals are publicly engaged in a circle jerk of two, based on strawmen arguments and pathetic buffoonery.
But hey..its amusing to watch you two jerking each other off.
Shrug..like watching a Short Bus filled with Downs children parked at a red light...working each other up .
Gunner
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for Western civilization as it commits suicide" - James Burnham
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Gunner wrote:
I notice you said nothing to answer my question about what 'winning' the war will look like.
Don't fret, I don't think GWB ever knew either.
Stuart
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It was said clearly some years ago "The trouble with this world is that the fools are cocksure and the intelligent people full of doubt."
--
Stuart Fields
Experimental Helo magazine
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of The Future of Freedom Foundation. He will be among the 22 speakers at FFFs upcoming conference on June 14 in Reston, Virginia: Restoring the Constitution: Foreign Policy and Civil Liberties.
Copyright 2007 Future of Freedom Foundation
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On Mar 2, 9:22 am, Ignoramus16069 <ignoramus16...@NOSPAM. 16069.invalid> wrote:

I find it disconcerting when people discuss the war ONLY in terms of political motives of one or both parties, although political motives should not be ignored.
A non political approach to Iraq.
point 1) Islam (or at least the terroristic portion of Islam) has declared war on the United States, Western civilization, and all other religions. Examples are 9/11, the 1st world trade center bombing, Lockerbie Scotland, USS Cole, Bombings in Spain, London, Indonesia, etc. etc. etc.
point 2) We can't walk away from this fight because they will follow us. As I see it we have 3 choices, convert, fight or die. By retreating into some form of isolationism (remember WW II ) we can delay these choices, perhaps beyond our lifetimes, but only a coward would leave these choices to our children's children.
point 3) We should fight the terroristic portion of Islam when ever and where ever we find them and we are currently finding them in large quantity in Iraq, so why not reinforce. It will require a long campain to defeat the millions of terrorists, however I wonder if Americans have the resolve or patience for it, Carthage didn't have the resolve or patience when Hanibal was poised to destroy Rome and requested more troops and supplies, the end result was the destruction of Carthage by Rome roughly 50 years later.
Carl
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Carl wrote:

Yes.

I am not sure this is true. They ARE in Afghanistan and Pakistan, which is where at least some of the above-mentioned attacks were directed from. Why do we only have 8000 troops there now, with Osama bin-Laden and crew STILL not found?
We defeated BOTH the Germans and the Japanese in roughly 4 years, SIMULTANEOUSLY, while also building the atomic bomb! Incredible! Yet, we can't find ONE GUY who directed several attacks against our country? Impossible, just plain impossible! We haven't found Osama or mullah Omar because it was in George Bush's political interest that he NOT be found! That is the ONLY conclusion I can come to. I don't think Osama is a major threat to the US right now (could be wrong, too) but he certainly IS a symbol of the radical Islamic movement, and his capture and trial would be a tremendous demoralizing blow to that movement. His continued freedom and occasional press releases are a great morale-booster to that movement.
I'm usually not such a cynic, but there is something really CRAZY going on behind the scenes.
Jon
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attack Iraq
No WMD
No 9/11 link.
Al Qaida enters Iraq.
Iraq in crisis.
2700 American troops killed.
War Increases terrorist recruitment.
Halliburton can't account for $18 billion
Bin Laden remains free.
No end in sight.
HEY, STAY THE COURSE. YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH BUSH'S FOREIGN POLICY SUCCESS. LOL!
Dixon
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And a great deal of that 4 years was just getting ourselves in a position to fight.
The War with Germany was decidedly political and economic against a country and a government. The war with Japan was also mostly political and economic against a country and a government, the ideological aspect that the Japanese considered the emperor divine is what caused some of the Japanese soldiers to hide in the forests and mountains and occasionally pop up through the at least the 80's.
The "war on terror" is not against a government but an ideology (think Japanese soldiers hiding out for 40 years), so direct comparisons are not 100 % relevant, but here goes
We officially occupied West Germany until 1955, and Berlin until 1990. The Soviets occupied East Germany until 1990.
We "officially" occupied Japan until 1952, Iwo Jima until 1968 an Okinawa until 1972. We have 47,000 troops there today, which while not officially an occupying force actually were until just a few years ago when Japan was allowed to have their own military
We defeated and occupied the country and government of Iraq in weeks. Then we started fighting the ideological "war on terror"
Carl
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wrote:

However..in WW2...we mobilized the entire US. Drafted and put 5 million men under arms and turned em loose.
The current war in Iraq is simply a statistical blip on the radar.
Think if we started up the draft and went on a war footing..the Middle East would last 4 yrs..the entire Middle East?
Carpet bombings of entire cities etc...
Iraq IS a kinder and gentler war. Unfortunately.
Gunner
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for Western civilization as it commits suicide" - James Burnham
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which

do

to

country

economic

Japanese

soldiers

at

The

few

Then

commits suicide"

I would find it hard to justify killing the 950 million peacefull muslims to get the 50 million non-peacefull one. pick your numbers:
0.1% terrorists 999 peaceful peaceful, 1 million violent 1% terrorists 990 peaceful peaceful, 10 million violent 5% terrorists 950 peaceful peaceful, 50 million violent 10% terrorists 900 million peacefull, 100 million violent 20% terrorists 800 million peacefull, 200 million violent
Based on my son's year in Baghdad I am pretty sure its within this range
Hitler and the Jewish holocost would be for gotten if we did that. I think we are fighting the war too soft, but would not propose destruction of mass civilian populations as in Dresden, Tokoyo, Hiroshima, or Nagasaki . Under the current rules of engagement if fired on we can only respond with proportional firepower, if fired on from a mosque we can't go in without approval of the Iraqi government. Needs to be tougher without going overboard.
Carl
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I think that is a major exaggeration.
--

FF


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