OT What is happening to the gun control movement?

Whither Gun Control?

> >Saturday, May 22, 2004 > >By John R. Lott, Jr. > >What is happening to the gun control movement? > >This month, the Million Mom March in Washington drew an anemic >showing of only 2,000 people, while this year, all of the >Democratic presidential candidates however unenthusiastically >spoke of Americans? Second Amendment right to own guns. These >are just a few of the signs that the facts finally seem to be >catching up to the movement. The future for the movement looks >even worse. > >Whether the subject is concealed handgun laws or bans on >semi-automatic so-called assault weapons, gun control debates >have been filled with apocalyptic claims about what will happen >if gun control is not adopted. One common prediction is that laws >allowing the carrying of a concealed weapon will result in crime >waves, or permit holders shooting others. However, with 37 states >now having right-to-carry laws , and another nine states letting >some citizens carry, permit holders have continually shown >themselves to be extremely law-abiding. It is becoming more and >more difficult to attack those laws. > >Disarray among gun controllers is becoming common, even on one >cornerstone of the gun control movement ? the semi-automatic gun >ban. Take the statements made on National Public Radio by a >representative of the Violence Policy Center just one week after >the assault weapon extension was defeated in the Senate this >March. > >NPR described the VPC as "one of the more aggressive gun groups >in Washington." Yet the VPC's representative claimed: If the >existing assault-weapons ban expires, I personally do not believe >it will make one whit of difference one way or another in terms >of our objective, which is reducing death and injury and getting >a particularly lethal class of firearms off the streets. So if it >doesn?t pass, it doesn?t pass. > >The NPR reporter noted: "[the Violence Policy Center's >representative] says that's all the [assault-weapons ban] brought >about, minor changes in appearance that didn't alter the function >of these weapons. > >Yet, before the Senate vote the VPC had long claimed that it was >a "myth" that "assault weapons merely look different. The NRA and >the gun industry today portray assault weapons as misunderstood >ugly ducklings, no different from other semi-automatic guns. But >while the actions, or internal mechanisms, of all semi-automatic >guns are similar, the actions of assault weapons are part of a >broader design package. The 'ugly' looks of the TEC-9, AR-15, >AK-47 and similar guns reflect this package of features designed >to kill people efficiently." > >So why the sudden disarray after the Senate defeat? Simply, >gun-control groups' credibility is on the line and they are >getting cold feet. With no academic research showing the assault >weapons ban reduces crime, gun control groups realize that soon >it will be obvious to everyone that their predicted horror >stories about "assault weapons" were completely wrong. > >Internationally, dramatic gun control victories in countries such >as England, Australia, and Canada are also unraveling. > >? Crime did not fall in England after handguns were banned in >January 1997. Quite the contrary, crime rose sharply. Yet, >serious violent crime rates from 1997 to 2002 averaged 29 percent >higher than 1996; robbery was 24 percent higher; murders 27 >percent higher. Before the law, armed robberies had fallen by 50 >percent from 1993 to 1997, but as soon as handguns were banned, >the robbery rate shot back up, almost back to their 1993 levels. > >? Australia has also seen its violent crime rates soar after its >Port Arthur gun control measures (search) in late 1996. Violent >crime rates averaged 32 per cent higher in the six years after >the law was passed (from 1997 to 2002) than they did the year >before the law in 1996. The same comparisons for armed robbery >rates showed increases of 45 percent. > >? The 2000 International Crime Victimization Survey, the most >recent survey done, shows that the violent crime rate in England >and Australia was twice the rate in the US. > >? Canada has not gone anywhere near as far as the United Kingdom >or Australia. Nevertheless, their gun registration system is >costing roughly a thousand times more than promised and has grown >to be extremely unpopular, with only 17 percent of Canadians in a >poll release this week supporting the system. Nor does the system >seem to be providing any protection. The Canadian government >recently admitted that they could not identify even a single >violent crime that had been solved by registration. > >Everyone wants to take guns away from criminals. The problem is >that if the law-abiding citizens obey the laws and the criminals >don?t, the rules create sitting ducks who cannot defend >themselves. While the debate is hardly over, gun control is just >another example of government planning that hasn?t lived up to >its billing. And like other types of government planning, >eventually its failures become too overwhelming to ignore. > >John Lott, Jr., is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise >Institute and is the author of The Bias Against Guns (Regnery >2004). > >
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That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell

Reply to
Gunner
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Reply to
jim rozen

Shrug..lots of folks with unsavory practices you probably approved of at one time or another. Ben Franklin, (liked little girls..a lot), etc etc..and of course..Bill Clinton. shrug.

Lott shit in his messkit. But that neither changes his research one way or another. Or are you claiming Bill Clinton was completly a wash as a Prez?

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell

Reply to
Gunner

For me it does. His credibility *might* go up after a time - maybe ten years or so. But that will always be there.

Or are you claiming Bill Clinton was completly a wash

Why *do* you have such a fixation on him? He did some good, he did some bad, as president. But he's gone down in history as the 'man with the blue dress.' Nobody can change that. Same as nixon and the tapes, carter and playboy magazine. etc.

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

Reply to
jim rozen

Getting his ass kicked yet again, Gunner wrote --

Lott's 'messkit' is his research.

Reply to
Carl Nisarel

See your next paragraph below. Seems you are a victim of your own double standards, no?

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell

Reply to
Gunner

Shrug..Still waiting for an answer to the question "is the right to keep and bear arms an individual right" in the US.

Yes or no.

Its obvious why you refuse to answer..and its quite telling about your intellectual honesty.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell

Reply to
Gunner

Not at all. Lott's core business depends on his truthfulness and reliabilty in print. The Roush thing did more than decimate that.

Clinton (and all those other folks) are politicians. They're supposed to lie and sleaze.

The difference is subtle but real.

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

Reply to
jim rozen

IOW, you don't care that Lott is a discredited and dishonest hack economist.

...

Reply to
Carl Nisarel

Shrug..Still waiting for an answer to the question "is the right to keep and bear arms an individual right" in the US.

Yes or no.

Inquiring minds are anxiously awaiting your answer, Carl.

michael

Reply to
michael

The real comparison is the Mary Roush affair is like Abu Ghraib prison scandal. If you are a liberal, find the tiniest thing wrong with a conservative and focus on it.

Should we someday find out that Pres George W. Bush, himself, commited littering in 1954, we have our headlines for a month.

Reply to
Clark Magnuson

Clark, *why* do you have to be liberal to find the image of Lott playing 'dress-up' on the internet, tooting his own horn shamelessly, as completely hilarious?

I think that folks of all persuasion can see that what he did destroyed his journalistic credentials for a long, long time. It would be like you, replying to yourself here on the ng, saying, 'yep, uh huh, that guy Clark is just the *best*, he knows _so_ much, and I'm So impressed with everything he writes here!'

You may be a smart, skilled individual, but pretending to be somebody else to puff up your own image is wrong. Almost anyone can see that. You don't do that. He shouldn't either.

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

Reply to
jim rozen

They are Supposed to lie and Sleaze? With an attitude like that..no wonder you are a Democrat.

Geeeeze.

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell

Reply to
Gunner

Still waiting, Cattle

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell

Reply to
Gunner

We are waiting for you to explain why you are using 'research' from a discredited hack.

Reply to
Carl Nisarel

Lott wasn't a journalist, he was an academic researcher. Now that he's blown his reputation as an academic, all he can do is publish op-ed articles in newspapers. He's become a journalist.

Reply to
Carl Nisarel

We are still waiting to find out why you will not answer the question about Individual Rights.

You have become null and void. Thanks for playing.

Bye.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell

Reply to
Gunner

No. A Pragmatist - like you. If you really think that the stripes are any different on the Republi-tigers than on the Demo-tigers, then I've severely mis-judged you.

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

Reply to
jim rozen

On 25 May 2004 09:11:38 -0700, jim rozen brought forth from the murky depths:

_Both_ are repainted skunks.

-- Life's a Frisbee: When you die, your soul goes up on the roof. ----

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Reply to
Larry Jaques

I watched on C-span a few years back, a pier review of "More Guns, Less Crime". The other professors of economics that were proficient in econo metrics one by one went to the podium and tried to find fault. To quote one professor before his presentation he said with a snarl, "It turns out the gun nuts were right."

To make an analogy, if Newton put on a dress and dance the Hokie Pokie, rocket engines would still work. Likewise, concealed carry permits when introduced, will lower the crime in that state, no matter how many variables are normalized.

Reply to
Clark Magnuson

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