[AN] EMRR introduces the Rocket Glossary

Your glossary has mis-information in it.

Specifically your long rambling and incorrect definition of Cato.

"Cato" is a word just like "combo". "Cato" is short for "catastrophic failure" just like "combo" is short for "combination" (like "combo meal").

The icing on your cake is the use of "take off". Rockets do not "take off". They either "launch" or "lift off" or (in the distant past) "blast off". Aircraft "take off".

-Fred Shecter NAR 20117 (OK, Hoseheads also "take off", eh?)

-- ""Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply.

Point.

If nothing else this industry repeats false information really, really well.

I did not input these items, but have submitted scads of definitions via the site. Many of them are what I have come to understand the definition of a term is and it is entirely possible that I have mis-used words. I have also sent in corrections on other people's definitions. Hopefully other people submit corrections and attempt to make this glossary as good is it can be.

Question wrt your description of CHAD:

"CHAD Slang term meaning Cheap and Dirty. Most common usage is CHAD-staging, in which a booster motor is attached to the rear of a rocket motor in a single-stage rocket. Since the booster returns to Earth without a recovery device, this practice is a violation of NAR safety rules."

This says that a falling booster engine (with no attached booster stage infrastructure like tube, fins, etc.) is a violation of NAR safety rules. What would make this different than the falling engine of various Estes (and I assume other) kits that simply eject the engine (e.g. Gyroc, Streak, etc.)?

This entry actually is incorrect.... Nothing is said in the Model Rocket Safety Code regarding dropping of engines or engine ejection without a recovery device having to be attached....it is only illegal in the context of the NAR Pink Book rules for NAR competition:

No entry in sanctioned competition shall eject its motor or motors in flight in such a manner that the spent motor casing or

casings fall freely apart from the model. Ejected motor casings must descend with an attached and fully deployed streamer

or parachute. The streamer area must be no less than 10 square centimeters for each gram of jettisoned mass; the parachute

area must be no less than 5 square centimeters per gram of jettisoned mass. See Rule 9.10.

shockie B)

False statement. It is a violation of NAR CONTEST RULES but is legal for sport.

Since you are the manager of that rocketreviews.com feature, at least correct those items you have been informed of here.

I am not the manager of the feature, just a contributor. I will suggest those changes however. I may not see a mass of inputs here, so people should submit their own in general.

Now that I looked back at this definition, and several others on the net, I decided that what is there, although rambling, seem close enough for me. Anyone is free to dispute it, but I don't care on this one.

A common misconception. A free falling motor casing is *NOT* a violation of the safety code, and never has been. It *IS* a violation of the NAR competition rules ("pink book") and has been as long as I've been in competition (30 years).

And in the original implementation of CHAD staging (Tom Beach, NARAM-21 D ELA), there WAS a streamer on the motor for a recovery device. It was tied in place with a string that was secured to the upper stage. St staging, the string broke or burned, releasing the streamer.

Interesting side note: this predates the NARAM-22 stupidrocs for use of esternal recovery systems, one of the complaints against the NARAM-22 stupidrocs.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

for some folks the rule alone is not enough, we need the reason. so what's the reason for this rule?

I would guess it has something to do marginally with safety but more with parachute and streamer duration - obviously you can get your durations to be much longer without the weight of the motor case.

???

"Perceived safety" is the reason, which also means it is subjective and arbitrary.

I guess they don't want potentially "smoldering,hot" engine casings failing out of the sky and boinking people in the head...? Putting out peoples eyes as they look up? imagine ejecting D and above motors or RMS casing and having them smack you up side the head from say 4000 ft....can you say OUCH ? shockie B)

By my reading of the glossary entry, he pretty much states that the origins are unclear and that some consider "CATO" to be an acronym and some a contraction of "Catastrophic." Sounds like a good entry to me since he really never claims that it's one or the other. From my earliest days in BARdom and browsing the net and specifically the r.m.r. FAQ I found this:

The following definition has been posted to r.m.r. by Jack Hagerty, ( snipped-for-privacy@rml.com) editor of the excellent r.m.r Glossary. For even more complete information on the term CATO, refer to the glossary.

A motor failure, generally explosive, where all the propellant is burned in a much shorter time than planned. This can be a nozzle blow-out (loud, but basically harmless), an end-cap blow-out (where all of the pyrotechnic force blows FORWARD which usually does a pretty good job of removing any internal structure including the recovery system) or a casing rupture which has unpredictable, but usually devastating, effects. Another form of CATO is an ejection failure caused by either the delay train failing to burn or the ejection charge not firing, but the result is the same: the model prangs.

Opinions on the meaning of the acronym range widely. Some say it's not an acronym at all, but simply a contraction of 'catastrophic' and should be pronounced 'Cat-o' (which sounds better than 'cata' over PA systems :-). Others maintain that it is an acronym but disagree on the meaning, offering a broad spectrum of 'CAtastrophic Take Off,' 'Catastrophically Aborted Take Off,' 'Catastrophe At Take Off' and the self referential 'CATO At Take Off.' The acronym crowd pronounces it 'Kay-Tow', like the Green Hornet's side kick. It has been pointed out, though, that all of the above are 'post-hoc' definitions since LCO's were using the term over range PA systems long before any formal acronym was established.

If anything Essence needs to give some thought to making sure that he's giving credit where due for this. I sounds like he lifted part of his definition directly from the above passage. Jack Hagerty is the original poster of this info.

Scott McCrate NAR 71680

At MIT, we were using CATO in the early '60s. We all assumed it was a slang abbreviation for catastrophe or catastrophic failure. It was pronounced kay-toh, despite the "inconsistency".

Anything else is revisionism.

len.

No. He pretty much states "Catastrophic Take Off (or Catastrophe At Take Off) A violent failure of the rocket motor casing, closures, or nozzle. This usually occurs at take off, and often results in the destruction of the airframe. The exact meaning of CATO is in dispute"

This clearly leads you to believe that HE is stating that it means Catastrophe At Take Off. he then goes on to say that "this usually occurs at take off".

Rockets do not "take off". this is a typical example of people making up words to create an acronym out of something that is NOT an acronym.

next thing you know, we will all be "shooting" out model rockets.

"I'm gonna go shoot my Alpha tomorrow".

"Why, didja catch it cheatin' on ya?"

-Fred "anti-idiot" Shecter NAR 20117

-- ""Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply.

like

either

agreed.

Thanks for the input. I'm happy to correct any of these. I collected all these through input and actually did not write a single one myself. It is "mine" due to it being on EMRR and I'd love to make corrections. So that is why I have an input box.

I appreciate any others that folks may have.

Nick

Most duration events prohibit separation of parts already. The only exceptions are Boost Glide and FlexWing. ALso in competition, it makes impounding the model in the case of question dificult when the motor is no longer attached to anything.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!