Not for long.
Despite existing exemptions. Sad.
Endorsing the club (TRA) that brough the ATF down upon you.
You are an "early adopter" of TRA!!!
Soon, you will have that "opportunity" alot more of the time.
I didn't say that HPR is dead or even that it will be ded at some future
point. What I am saying it will be regulated via the NAR/TRA Lx process, per
the NFPA codes, and a LEUP will be required for motors > 62.5g.....
Regulation to me does not denote DEATH... it denotes to me a transformation
in the way the SOP is done.....
The current people who have LEUP will notice basically no changes
whatsoever, only those newbies will be effected......and again I say the
NAR's mission should be to service these people to help them attain an LEUP
and do HPR if they so desire.....In other words the NAr becomes a support
and service organization to its memembership that wants to do HPR.......
what I am saying is that some day, coming to a year near you, we would have
spents hundreds of thousands od dollars to achieve EXACTLY the same result
if we had not opposed the regulations.....Theres no doubt in my mind that
the NAR./TRA lawsuits are all bogus..... they are only "holding
actions".....in the end the infinite power and resources of FEDGOV will
overcome the meager respurces of the NAR/TRA..... Its a lost coss.. but the
NAR/TRA is not willing nor able to reconsider their positions...
Prediction: 10 years from all the BATFE regulations will be in effect......
after some initial losses in the market, the NAR./TRA merged and became a
service and support organization for its members that wanted to do HPR.....
The bad news is the NAR/TRA spent over 600K and 20 years resisting the
regulatory framework changes....the good news is that the newly invirogtaed
NAR/TRA is actively solciting adults for its new BATFE approved HPR
program.....The future looks very bright for growth..
think beyond the box....
I can't find anyone at Earthlink's customer service department who knows the
difference between NNTP, HTTP, and IP. (Or so it seems.) So I have given up on
posting messages with attachments to Usenet. Its enough to make me drag out my
copy of "The World's Only Known Constructively Snotty Computer Science Book"
I have put a copy of the BATFE's November status report to the court here:
You can get an idea of what judge Walton thought of it by reading:
Fine, have it your way. I'll just live in my little delusional world
where we have a launch every weekend. You live in your world where
rocket motors are "aircraft parts".
Jerry Irv> >
Define "long". I've been making this observation for several years
now and you continue to predict otherwise.
And FWIW I have no connect to TRA or EX, I was just stating a fact
that EX has a strong following here.
of course I don't have any proof to back up my asssertions, anymore than he
does, or the NAR does regarding the death of rocketry as we know it if the
BTAFE gets its way....Its been a propaganda war from the brginning for the
the hearts and minds of the NAR/TRA membership: the big bad ATF against us
poor little rocketeers..wahhhhhhhhh.....
just because some well known rocketeers make these pronouncements of doom
and gloom doesn't make it so.....but since they are more vocal then most
others, their opinions all of the sudden become "reality"....
I guess it depends if you are a strict constructionist or not...I don't see
requiring fingerprinting/background checks as so intrusive to get into
HPR.....I would suspect those with something to hide like a 1970's felony
as far as rights are concerned, some states and courts are giving out NEW
rights everyday.......I'm not aware of any constitutional "right" to shoot
N rockets up without some form of regualtion or oversight....
That's an interesting point of view: "anyone who doesn't want to submit
to government inspection to launch big toy rockets must be someone who
has something to hide..." So people like that should just go away, in
order that the Rest of Us might better integrate into the New Regime?
Is that what you're indicating? "Well, anyone that wouldn't _want_ to
apply for a LEUP _must_ be the sort of people we wouldn't want at _our_
launches anyway; they'd make the Feds nervous..."
That's the part where it says that any powers not specifically
granted or denied to the Federal Government are reserved to the
individual states and to the people in general.
I don't "inherently" object to that.
What has been shown for DECASES is that unrestricted access has NOT been
If anything it has served as a trap for terrorists already due to full
For many of us, the "inspection" stuff isn't the thing that is preventing us
from getting permits. Many of us would never get permission from our local
authorities to store "explosives" where we live. I haven't found any listings
for "commercial explosive storage" in the local yellow pages.
Rant Mode on>>>>>
Even if I am willing to concede that APCP was a "dangerous Explosive that
needed to be stored in an approved magazine by a permitee", (which I am
not), I would find it difficult to maintain that we are not losing our
Prior to the Homeland Security Act, I could purchase a restricted access
motor in state without an LEUP and burn it that day. Now, I must find a
dealer or LEUP holder to "sponsor" my flight to fly any of those same
motors...OR get an LEUP.
Restricted access was/is a motor consisting of individual fuel grains that
did not exceed 32.5 grams in weight. This allowed me fly up to a large J
motor (1060 NS). While there is some dispute over weather or not "Easy
Access" ever legal existed, it was widely recognized as being legal
(including the local ATF agents) and therefore existed in a "de facto"
sense. This to is being regulated either by the NPRM that is still in
process or by the current enforcement actions of the ATF.
Therefore it is a fact that rights that I granting me access larger motors
have been reduced since the HSA went into affect.
And at this point, I am only talking about rights to pursue this
hobby...don't even get me wound up on the rights to privacy, free travel,
due process and illegal search and seizure that have been trampled under in
the name of "Security".
I travel BY AIR each and every week for work, In the last six years alone I
have flown over 1,000,000 actual miles in the air. I have seen the inside
and outside of at least 20 different airports and have made in excess of 300
flights! I flew the week of 9/11 and pretty much every week after that. Do
I fell safer? YES...but NOT because of the TSA (Transportation Safety
Administration or as we like to call them Thousands Standing Around), the
HSA, or the added security measures. It is because of the change in the
attitudes of those seated on the plane. The majority now will not be
"Sheeple" they will (and have) taken matters into their own hands. Airport
security is arbitrary, inconsistent, and basically expensive window
dressing. It is there to instill confidence that "Air Travel is safe because
we are doing something". And for this sham, I pay an extra security fee on
each ticket I purchase, spend an inordinate amount of time standing in a
security line in my socks, and allow the government unprecedented access to
phone and email conversations, and an unprecedented ability to detain and
question me without due process should they ever suspect me as a terrorist.
As to new rights granted. Just check out the ATF's actions, they seem to be
granting themselves new ones every month.
Nice McCarthy-esque reasoning there, Shock. "Anyone who doesn't want a police
state must have something to hide."
I don't get your point here... are you whining because the orgs are trying to
defend HPR? What would you rather have them do, let HPR die out and turn their
focus back to Estes kiddie toys?
I have nothing to hide, and consider it VERY intrusive. They catalog and
file fingerprints of known criminals. WE ARE NOT CRIMINALS. Yet our
fingerprints are now on file in god knows how many government databases.
Amendment IX - The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall
not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment X - The powers not delegated to the United States by the
Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States
respectively, or to the people.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
It's the "inspection" thing.
It's the fingerprinting.
It's the giving up your constitutional rights.
It's the fees.
It's the never-ending set of hoops.
It's the threat of jail and big fines for non compliance.
It's illegal, and those enforcing the bogus laws should be arrested and
carted off to jail.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
I may pop in once in a while. I haven't got time to read all the
and this new r.m.r. format is hard to use on my computer. Not that the
old one was easy either.
I can still use ROL and that together with the local NWR list is where
I can be found.
So you folks here won't have to put up with me much!
Geez, I forgot the earplugs and the cheering is deafening! ;-)
Oh, and the email address on my r.m.r. messages is bogus too. Thank