Complicating a problem

I think a federal prosecutor would yes, it is their job to enforce USPS and DT shipping requirements. Its their job because this hobby is sypposed to be regulated by self-regulation. IF ROL actually beleived in self-regulation(which is self-policing) then they would not be the facilitation business. WHat they are basically doing, is facilitating breaking the law.....that in itself is a crime... The reason EBAY enforces the USPS/DOT shipping laws, is that it actually knows the law: in ROL's case, the owner, doesn't know the law nor does he care about the law. Just remember this the next time you mail that over 30 g H motoro through the USPS: there might be a USPS postal inspector on the other end. I think the USPS/BATFE both are aware of ROL, and they are just biding their time, taking down names and such, and one of these days when its the right time, they will strike all around the country in a massive roundup of people who have been doing this now for years. And the Headlines will be "USPS/BATFE breaks up nationwide explosives smuggling ring". And alot of peoples lifes will be disrupted. And it wil be used against us in the court of public opinion.

God save us from ourselves! We have met the enemy and they are us.

snipped-for-privacy@afo.net wrote:

Because it's not their job to enforce USPS regulations.

Nonsense. If the government cared enough to put a stop to this, they could simply enforce the existing regs.

as they say: you gonna have to CITE that one for me. And we all know that

And how can the seller verify that the buyer is even "certfied" to receive such HPR motors in the first place? You mean Joe Seller is striking up a conversation online with Joe Buyer and asks Joe Buyer, you Level 2 certfied? And Joe Buyer says yes? Does Joe Seller then require that Joe Buyer provide PROOF that he is indeed currentyly certified Level2? And what if Joe Buyer says NO I have No cert? Does Joe Seller, because hes ahrd up and needs the money, just say, well ok? And what if Joe Buyer turns out to be Joe "the terrorist" Muhammand? And has been "collecting" K motors for a year now..... Now of the above strikes me as being Self-Regulation?

And Even if they are properly shipping as HAZMAT, they have to be party to E-7887 or other DOT exemptions.... Which means they actually have to undertaken hazmat shipping training. JUst because they are correctly shipping hazmat as hazmat, if they are doing it NOT being party to E-7887, then they are in violation of DOT shipping regs.

And according to NFPA 1127 which IS the TRA Safety Code, any TRA member that buys or sells HPR, is supposed to be certfied and keep sales records.

This whole "exercise" shows me and the world that there is alot of criminally inclined people in this hobby. Perhpas this is why the BATFE has deceide to try and ban it or shut it down? Could that be it? Could it be that they recognize that there is indeed no such thing as Self-Regulation? The above examples would seem to bear that out.

Now the moral relativism's among us will argue, as they already have that this is okay behavior? You know who you are? The ones who believe in situational ethics? These are the people who argue, that everything and anything is alright, it just depends on the "context" or the "situation" they find themselves.

"Moral relativism is the position that moral or ethical propositions do not reflect absolute or universal truths but instead emerge from social customs and personal preferences, and that there is no single standard by which to assess an ethical proposition's truth"

"Situational ethics refers to a particular view of ethics, in which absolute standards are considered less important than the requirements of a particular situation. The standards used may, therefore, vary from one situation to another, and may even contradict one another. This view of ethics is similar to moral relativism".

shockie B)

Right, it's the government's job, not ROL's.

By that "logic" ROL should prohibit all sales of all items, not just motors. By permitting these sales they are facilitating the potential crimes of fencing stolen goods, failure to pay sales taxes, operating a business without a license, mail fraud, etc. We've already seen plenty of instances of mail fraud committed by ROL sellers. Can you guarantee that every kit or component sold on ROL was legally obtained and is being legally sold? Can you guarantee that every dealer selling on ROL has a proper business license, and is paying the required income and sales taxes?

Wrong! If they knew and enforced the law, they would permit sales of motors by legitimate dealers who ship legally.=20

Your problem is in confusing legal technicalities with with morality. They are not the same. There are plenty of things which are immoral but legal, and plenty of things which are moral but illegal. Morality and ethics are not determined by the law.

And before you go setting yourself up on a pedestal of morality, looking down your nose at those who may not always obey every single law and regulation, you'd better make darn sure that YOU obey every single law and regulation at all times. No crossing the street in the middle of the block at any time of the day or night. No speeding, not even a little, under any circumstances. Find a penny in the street? Turn it in to the police. Sell a kit? Declare the income and pay the taxes. And above all, never ever make a move without first checking every local, state and federal regulation to make sure it's ok.

Oh, and what was that you said in another forum? Something along the lines of "it's ok to launch here but only if you don't ask permission". After you were told by every local authority that you couldn't get permission.

So much for your pedestal, Mr. Moral Relativist.

=C0

Nope. Some shipments, non-commercial ones, are exwempt from ALL the regulations.

Read the DOT preamble.

OK Jerry, ship me some motors. I promise that I will not pay you anything for them, nor any remuneration of any kind. These will be strictly for my collection. I don't have a LEUP, but I could some of your G7's, for my collection.

Alan

G7 = killer RCRG propulsion

Ted Novak TRA#5512 IEAS#75

Why don't you show it to Us.