here we go again: NAR vs TRA: clash of the titans

Give it a rest.

You're taking one persons response that there are 'only 12' licensees in California.

Think it through...

If you still believe it, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in...

David Erbas-White

I would venture to guess it means the same as a LEUP.

the Pryo guys doing fireworks do it the same way.

The Legal person doing the Possess, receiver, transport, storing and launch of the motor is the pyro op.

The person with the rocket is the conveyance for the sauce, errr. motor..

Grave or Jerry can jump in and explain better.

A phrase out of Galaxy quest comes to mind, explain it like....

IMO - the two aren't close. It doesn't make sense to me. Also, if someone wants to fly a rocket of a particular level, they fly it as if they had the cert anyway so what's the diff?

Maybe he's carrying on the mosaic for Iz.

Not exactly. A person with a Class 1 or 2 license can supervise unlicensed flyers. That's how most folks get by.

There are three purposes for the CSFM rocketry license:

1. Taxation.
2. It covers the Fire Marshal's ass, politically.
3. It fulfills the inbred need of Ca. politicians to have every damn thing from cradle to grave regulated.

I know it is possible and has actually happened because I did it.

Because they are banned and unable to get TRA to comply.

They are gatekeepers in the context of NFPA which applies in some 32 states.

Jerry

Very few ROC attendees have Pyro-Op 3 permits. Are they each in violation?

TRA exempts itself (I dunno how) from OSFM regs by claiming all flyers are operating under a single permit.

Jerry

It clearly means EVERY TRA HPR launch in CA is grossly illegal.

When did you manufacture motors that had CSFM approval?

Specifically which motors?

Who is "they"?

I think that is what he is saying, however misguided he is.

It is approximately correct. When I was at the OSFM last year, the number was a bit higher but not much.

No David, it's true. COSFM regs are the most unworkable regs I have ever seen, yet there they are.

Jerry

I guess the felon wants to confess to his crimes.

Surrre you did, Jerry.

There are no "banned" manufacturers, just manufacturers (and wannabes) who can't or won't comply with the requirements.

Irrelevant. The fact remains that there are other ways to do rocketry. It's just harder for wannabe manufacturers such as yourself to make money on things like Amateur Rocketry, in which motor sales are not permitted. Of course, you could still sell motors to industrial or government customers, if you were an actual, legal manufacturer.

TRA is a national organization, not a person. Pyro ops licenses can only be obtained by individuals, not organizations. By the same token they cannot "exempt" themselves from something that doesn't apply. I can only assume you are referring to individuals who happen to be TRA members, and just made the leap from "individual" to "org" in another lame attempt to smear TRA.

Assuming you mean CSFM regs here.

Just as you say you've done at your Amateur launches. And same as Frank does at Perchlorathon.

Hey Ray, You forgot about that whole felony thingy jerry has going for himself.

Why were you there? To discuss your felony conviction?

If you know the number, be specific, and provide a veriable cite.

Then why does TRA have a "public display permit"?

Yet they do.

But that is entirely different. A Pyro-op 2 (not 3) CAN oversee the operations of others. Furthermore NONE of the motors operated are "HPR certified" by either OSFM or TRA. It is an actual Amateur rocket launch. Which as you yourself have pointed out is entirely legal and with far fewer restrictions.

Constantly bringing up off-topic matters as "personal attacks" not only does not add to your arguement. It establishes how infantile and intellectually vacant you are.

Thanks.

Jerry

Apples and oranges, Jerry. It's like the diffence between a driver's license and vehicle registration. A vehicle can be registered to a company or organization, but that company or organization can't get a driver's license. Only individuals can do that.

Repeating an untruth doesn't make it true.

That's exactly what I said.

not less. For instance you are required to have a bunker or blockhouse with overhead protection of a certain strength. Also, the only person allowed to load the motor is the person with the license.

The main difference is that there's little in the way of a "pre-emptive enforcement mechanism". A person could do AR all they want without a permit and without following any rules, and until they screw up and get caught there's nothing in the law to prevent it. You don't need a permit or certification or anything else to buy the materials to make motors.