Interesting high lights of the NAR BoD Meeting and ...

On 13 Aug 2005 14:57:35 -0500, kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) wrote:
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True, but one might argue that it is a recoverable rocket motor powered aeromodel, with "average" thrust in the direction of flight.
Rocket powered cars are not model rockets either.
So, where can I find plans for a monocopter scaled for and Estes E9?
Alan

Alan Jones wrote:
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Wish I still had the link but I do know of a tricopter that was powered by 3 E9's. I do know I have a captured flight of one on dvd. However there is a problem with the E9's burning through the casing with the copters. I *think* it might have been Ed Miller's tricopter.
I'll check out the dvd this weekend to verify.
Ted Novak TRA#5512 IEAS#75

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I'd be interested in that too.
Or for that matter, an E9 Tazmanian Devil. Several attempts to get one to work have produced spectacular shreads. I had one I flew for years on FSI E5s, until they vanished, and one that never worked on F9s, but did make one good flight on an F14 when they were still around.

Joseph Peklicz 635 S. Zane Hwy Martins Ferry, OH 43935-1236
has a $15 kit called the "AP8 Aplanocopter" which has two offset wings and flies on an Estes E9. Shipping is $5.50. He doesn't have a web site as far as I know. You'll have to send him a check. He has a couple of other monocopters and some foam plate flying saucers.
Ed Miller has a 24mm monocopter kit that uses Estes Ds and can be flown on AeroTech 24mm RMS Es. It was $24.95 plus $4.95 shipping for the first one. $1.00 shipping for each additional one. The address is: Edward Miller 316 E Queen St. Jonestown, PA 17038
Alan Jones wrote: ...
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His 18mm design was published on the March 2001 Sport Rocketry.
One thing I've noted in flying this a few times, is you can't use a standard length launch rod. I've had success with a 3" rod that is SECURELY anchored to the ground. Don't even consider a rocket like this on a porta pad type launcher.

I've only flown his 13mm design so far. And only three times at that. I used the recommended A10 (well, I used the plugged version) and it didn't get off the 3" wooden dowel. A 1/2A gave a nice flight off the top of a standard launch rod.
I may take the nose plug off and put an engine retainer on so that I don't eject the motor. That way I'm at least compliant with the AMA codes up to G motors.
For the 18mm and up sizes I'll take your advice and use a short pin on a sturdy stake driven into the ground. The 13mm instructions show a 3"x3/16" launch pin on an Estes PortaPad. The PortaPad legs are held to the ground by "tent pegs" made from clostheshangers.     Will
Bob Kaplow wrote:
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writes:
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There was a follow-up in the next issue about the launch rod being shorter. A news search on 'monocopter sport rocketry' turned up the thread.
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standard
anchored

Alan Jones wrote:
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Alan
Ed Miller's Alien Enterprises Monocopter 24 flies on Estes D11P or AT 24 mm motors, it retails around $25 and uses carbon fiber. Estes E9s also work but do in fact burn through the outside of the cardboard casing necissitating the business end of the motor sticking out past the motor tube so as not to burn through themotor tube. Email Ed for his catalog. Also Apogee has a book regarding the theory of monocopters which will help to understand their intricacies.
Monocopters, tricopter, bicopters, cooling fans which use horizontal rocket thrust provide their lift via aerodynamics. I've never seen a multi engine fan failure, my guess is there are issues concerning the out of balance machine soldiering on, but it's only a guess.
In the few monocopter failures I've seen the motor didn't end up very far from the rest of the wreckage as it just tumbled after rolling through the inside diameter of flight. The larger concern is the failure of the launch pin, which I've also seen, much like a rocket having launch lug failure at ignition, which is far more of a concern than the motor flying off. NO MONOCOPTER USING A G MOTOR AND HIGHER SHOULD BE LAUNCHED WITHOUT A STEEL LAUNCH PIN!! The video was posted some time ago.
As an aside, scale drag racing is now using rocket powered turbine motors, whereby the rocket boost turns a tubine blade which turns the wheels, and not using the motor thrust alone. How they control the cars is something I've not yet seen.
Chuck

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Could you explain this a bit better? Is the "launch pin" the short rod, or the hole it goes through?

Bob Kaplow wrote:
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Bob
The launch pin itself, the short rod should be steel. On a recent effort I just drilled a 1/2" hole through the CF in the monocopter as a "launch lug" for lack of a better word and it has worked for 12 flights so far, but a wooden dowel for a launch pin on this larger mono is just asking for disaster. I have seen the results, it is ugly.
Chuck

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Ahem: The launch pin is the launch pin. That doesnt' help clarify thigns much.

Bob Kaplow wrote:
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Bob
I'm at a loss.....the Alien mono comes with a wooden dowel for a launch pin to install into the launch pad. That wooden dowel is not strong enough to handle the launch of a G motored mono, that pin should be steel. It is too short to be considered a rod, it's known as a pin to most people I have been with who launch monos.
The pin is substituted for a rail or launch rod for a monocopter flight. Ed Miller once told me when he first started he put a monocopter on a regular launch rod as he had no idea they needed a short pin to launch, it almost spun up to the top of the rod when the motor ran out of gas. While everyone else snickered he retrieved his monocopter which never left the rod, a wiser man.
Chuck

Chuck Rudy wrote:
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Bob didn't understand what you meant by "launch pin", and you explained it this time. In the previous message, you said "The launch pin itself, the short rod should be steel." which implies that the launch pin is NOT the short rod, but rather some secondary rod that's used.
Just a misunderstanding.
-Kevin

Kevin Trojanowski wrote:
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Kev
Thanks, man. I knew what I meant but I guess no one else did. ;-) I guess if I want to confused myself I'll just read my own posts. :-)
Chuck

Chuck Rudy wrote:
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Oh, I knew exactly what you meant, too -- I have a Monotcopter.
-Kevin

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OK, I got it now. The launc pin is the launch rod, and soem kits have a dowel instead of a steel rod.
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I would think that a full length rod would get wipped around like all h3!!
We had the same problems back inthe 70s when we launched Frisbees :-)

Bob Kaplow wrote:
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Bob
Sorry man, thought you had the same kind of handle on Monos I have, but I went and ASSumed......not the first time nor the last. Don't be afraid to keep me straight. I must sound like Yogi Berra sometiems.
Chuck

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Any idea why they burn through on that design but not a 3FMC rocket ?

AlMax wrote:
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Centrifugal force and cardboard casing. In Chuck's awesome LDRS dvd there's a close up of Ed Miller's tricopter showing the burn through. Pretty discouraging considering the E9 is a ideal economical motor for copters.
Ted Novak TRA#5512 IEAS#75

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Thanks Ted, makes since