Interesting high lights of the NAR BoD Meeting and ...

On 9 Aug 2005 13:09:18 -0500, kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) wrote:


That's political. They were picking on poor Jerry. 8-)
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Frank Kosdon was kicked out a few years ago, but he was reinstated within a few months. I don't recall the reason.
I'm pretty sure Jerry Irvine was kicked out since TRA BOD minutes talk about his requests to get reinstated. No idea why or when he was kicked out.
Brian Elfert
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writes:

For challenging Bruce Kelly.

Because Chuck Rogers flew a rocket to twice the altitude that he claimed it would reach.
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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Bob Kaplow wrote:

That's BS. jerry was kicked out for hosting launches and claiming to have waivers, when in fact he had none.
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OK, let's assume for the moment that Jerry did not have the claimed 15K waiver for the launch. Let's assume that Jerry lied and told people he did have a 15K waiver. What was done to someone who lied, saying his rocket would go 12K, when it really went 25K? Was he too kicked out? Or was he given a performance record for a flight that broke a waiver that he claimed didn't even exist?
-- Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
We have awakened a sleeping giant and instilled in it a terrible resolve. -- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, WWII.
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Bob Kaplow wrote:

Bob, where are you getting your information? Were You present at the launch in question? Who said their rocket would go to 12k? How do you know that the rocket went to 25k?
If there was no waiver, it's because jerry did not have one.
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This is very interesting. It seems there is at least some smoke involved here. Was there actually a launch in question? Please do tell what transpired. I am curious now.
--

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com



> If there was no waiver, it's because jerry did not have one.
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wrote:

Tell me you haven't heard of Jerry's sad tale about how he got tossed ut of TRA. That's what he's talking about. It must have been at least 12 years ago.
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Greg Cisko wrote:

If You're referring to Bob's claim, You'll have to get the details from Him. Bob's statements are based on claims made by jerry.
Maybe Bob could tell Us when and where this launch took place. Maybe Bob could describe the technical details of the rocket and flight.
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"How about we use your head for a blast deflector? 8-)"
did you have a point ? oh thats right NO you did not come back when you have something useful to say
Chris Taylor http://www.naramlive.com /
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oh it also does look like he was less than 15 feet (hard to tell its an angle etc..) but I watched it a dozen times what "flinch" do you refer too. he ran turned about running backwards and watched it take off. no flinch that I could see.
either way on a model like that it could not hurt him. its pure length and intertia would not permit it to rotate enough to harm him no matter what happened.
Chris Taylor http://www.naramlive.com /
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Chuck and Korey flew a rocket using "U.S. Rockets" technology developed by Irvine and disclosed to them in Powertech, a partnership of Irvine, Rogers, Kline, and others (long 54mm motor), at a Lucerne launch with a 15,000 foot FAA waiver.
Rogers stated AT THE LAUNCH the preflight run stated 13,000 feet, so he could get permission to fly.
It was optically tracked using NAR style trackers owned by Irvine to 25,000 feet (nearly as high as a post-flight computer run by Irvines said it should go).
Rogers after the flight stated it was preflight estimated to 32,000 feet and in fact used that flight data as the "sample" in a commercial software program RASALT4.bas (co-written by Irvine) for years.
Smoking gun.
He was not removed (by himself) from TRA.
The FAA agreed Irvine had obtained waivers for that and each other fest launch from 1986-1992.
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

Prove it.

Prove that too.

Prove it.

Prove it.

You've been smoking something, that's for sure.

Prove it.
You make lots of claims, let's see some proof to back it up.
\
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Well you do too. Why don't you prove that Jerry DIDN'T have the waiver?
Why don't you prove that Chuck DIDN'T lie about the expected altitude?
Why don't you proge that Chuck wrote the code he claims to have written?
Why don't you prove that TRA really did certify the D-E-F-G reloadable motors that Chuck claimed were certified at NARAM-34?
Why don't you prove that TMT tested the delays on all the AT M motors that thye certified.
Why don't you prove that TMT tested all the motors they claimed were certified from 1994-1997.
Come on, Ray, just prove it. I've repeatedly promised to stop harping on stuff if it were proven to be real, and to apologise to all involved if I was proven wrong. WHy can't you just take your own advice.
PROVE IT!
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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Bob Kaplow wrote:

I'm not the one making wild accusations at other people's expense. Nor am I the one who is trying to take credit for every conceivable advancement or innovation in rocketry just to boost my own ego.
As for Jerry's waiver problem, that was investigated years ago and to my knowledge no evidence was found to support Jerry's claim. Now I know you'll say, "Yes, but TRA did the investigation and so it must have been flawed because TRA is the source of all evil." If that's they way you like to think, fine, but don't expect me to buy into your crackpot conspiracy theories just because you hate TRA and Chuck Rogers. Especially when you're siding with a guy who has a PROVEN track record of criminal fraud and deceit. If it comes down to who's word is more trustworthy, I'll take anyone in TRA over Jerry.
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What I find notable about this poat is it totally disregards many past posts from not only myself but others offering collaborating evidence (witness accounts).
So debating with you is actually beyond useless.
Let's see your waivers from your Nevada flights Ray.
Then your Arizona ones.
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

Posts are hearsay. Just because someone posts to usenet claiming to have "witnessed" something doesn't mean they actually did, or that they know what they're talking about. You post lots of crap, and all that's ever proven is that you're full of it. BTW, I don't recall ever seeing any post from anyone who said they saw the waiver you claimed to have. In fact, you yourself have on other occasions said that obtaining waivers was Chuck's responsibility, not yours. Oh what a tangled web, eh? You can't even keep your contradictory stories straight.

How would that prove that you're not a liar? Or are you admitting that you did lie about waivers you didn't have, but it's ok because you think someone else didn't have a waiver either?
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Disregareding actual witness accounts is very convenient for your largely personal attack strategy.

Ever.
27 CFR 555.141-a-8 (a United States Fedral regulation citation).

I posted them. You responded to those posts. Selective menmory??

Blatently false.
False memory.

Oh what a tangled web.

Let's see your waivers from your Nevada flights Ray.

Let's see your waivers from your Nevada flights Ray.

So are you admitting you did not have waivers?
I am not.
Let's see real, actual Ray Dunakin responses to EACH of these points. Please?
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

Depending on alleged "witness accounts" instead of verifiable evidence is very convenient for your avoidance strategy. So is making accusations against others in order to shift the focus away from your lies. Sorry, I'm not going to play that game.
a
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Yes. Both is even better.
Makes a mosaic.
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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