Following proper procedures will prevent almost all accidents. They are accidents because they're not done on purpose. Somebody screwed up. Safety systems should provide a margin of error to allow a system to gracefully fail (by burning out the altimeter, as and example or better yet not powering on at all) instead of blowing up in your face. Literally.
Would the charge have blown when the shunt was removed? Don't know. I do know the G-Wiz only pulses the pyro channel (doesn't leave it hot for long) so maybe it would reset. But it wouldn't have blown when it did. Would the rocket have survived if flown? Not on THAT pyro channel, but again it wouldn't have blown up in your face. All the more reason for redundant deployment devices.
Bob, where are you getting your information? Were You present at the launch in question? Who said their rocket would go to 12k? How do you know that the rocket went to 25k?
If there was no waiver, it's because jerry did not have one.
Ok, I might agree a little in principle but the problem is obvious. How do you MAKE, people get involved in a volunteer position ( little or no pay and requires tireless effort for the long term) that gets blasted from all sides, regardless of what they do? And it's not just rocketry, it's anything you can name, Little League, church board, PTA, Scouts, etc. Everyone wants to have the best for little or no cost or obligation but FEW will accept the position, even if they are elected. That is the real problem.
Mark can stand or fall on his own merits but there's no doubting his devotion and tireless efforts.
Dave Leininger called me on his way home from the airport after taping the show. He was the one who said Bruce had some sort of surgery on his wrist/arm.
I'm sure he'll tell us about the time at Plaster Blaster where a rocket and it's pad flew over his head and hit the truck behind him.
Had one guy at a local launch with a week old truck that got damage from a free-fall nose cone it weighed something like 7 lbs) Someone got a magnetic sign that looked like a bullseye that would show up at launches on his repaired truck.
These were NAR launches.
As certs get easier, and the crowd grow at launches grow, the chance of an ingury increases.
That's one of the reasons I don't fly much anymore. I've seen birds with 4 K's turn into cruse missles because the bird was built poorly. People who barely passed there L1 get L2 and build some really wackey stuff that didn't turn out well. In this case the flier would cause not a "heads up flight", but a "hard hat" flight. (I still have an actual hardhat with the fligher's name on it, as this flier was known for bad flights) (this was a NAR range)
Also seen folks that ignored fire restrictions and launched sparkey motors in a dry desert (causing a fire)
I've also been awakened by a group throwing full 38mm grains into a smokey joe (webber) grill less than 10' from my nylon tent (another NAR launch). Once I was awake, I did get this shut down and told the guys to sleep it off...
Ending comment - if NAR/TRA expects the government to cut hobby rocketry some slack, it won't come from court actions. The first thing to do is to do self regulation - at the local level.
The porta-potty at LDRS in Argonia was launched at the away cells that are 1/4 to 1/2 mile from the flight line. (Don't know distance for sure.) There was no reason to worry about safety.
Master Blasters has proven that large objects can fly quite high with enough thrust. The porta-potty was flown in somewhat high winds and didn't have enough thrust behind it. Also, the parachutes seemed to deploy early.
One thing I did notice while I was a NAR member (it's been a couple years), is when an election came up there were x openings and x people running. So there was no reason to vote. If no members other than those running voted, the results would be the same as if every member voted.
While I'm not currently a NAR member, in theory, it might be time for there to be some actual competition for BOT positions. And more so, some challenge to the NAR Pres. position.
If I compare NAR to TRA (during the same timeframe), during the time I've been with TRA, their pres has changed 3 times - each for the better, IMHO.
NAR needs new blood at the top - many in this thread have stated the reasons I share.
I was a member of both TRA and NAR for years, and due to my job situation, found that I could only retain 1 of the 2 memberships. Though TRA cost more, I went with that, as I felt they were evolving to meet what I expected, while NAR was just running the same as they had for years, and years, and years
No problems there and I understand what you and Shockie are saying but still, how do you make (or get) people to accept the positions? If you're really going to do the job, even if it's only with travel, there is considerable time and expense involved in being on NAR / TRA boards, especially if a member lives several states away.
Disconnects/shunts do not protect against ALL problems, but they do protect against power-on transients (including the G-wiz reverse polarity, although I'm not sure if that is a always on problem or just a 1 second pulse) and accidental arming of timers.
Also, as I've said before, you should assume the charges will blow when you remove the safes so don't stand next to the charges with your face in the access port or your arm inside the guts of the rocket.
There are other steps, such as the sequence to test, connect, and arm the charges that can help minimize injury. That includes remembering to arm the electronics (been there) and remove the safety plugs.
I doubt that NAR S&T took the lead on that issue, but do you have a time line of significant events? YOu can't expect S&T to certify something unusual as a model rocket motor before it has be recognized as a model rocket motor with established performance and certification criteria. When was Vashon recognized as a model rocket motor by the CSPC and NFPA codes, and when did NAR S&T actually refuse to certify it?
Thats why several times over the past few years I had brought up the subject that the NAR should come into the internet age and use one of the free audio/video conferencing programs, like AOL AIM, MSN Messenger,Yahoo Messenger,ICQ,Paltalk,etc.
I have used all of the above at one time or another over the past 5 years. They have all improved greatly over their initial versions as far as reliablity and capabilities.
I suggested that each TRustee denote what kind of OS and interent connection each had at home or work. Then they would simply all agree to use the same IM client. If they didn't have broadband at home then perhaps they would have it at work. Almost all new Pc's/MAcs built over the past 5 years have more than capable audio and graphic card abilities to do multimedia, and AV conferencing.
All the Trustees would have to do is settle on a common AV client, and in install and config it. I was willing to provide online tech support, something I did for 5 years for Microsoft.
Each Trustee would use either a set of headphones or their speakers to hear what everybody else was saying, while also being able to see each other LIVE. Most of these AV clients have file sharing and white board ability, so that documents could be scanned prior to any meeting and then shared with all..
If a system like this was implemented, it would take a lot of the time and travel expense issues away. It might result in even more frequent board meetings as all you have to do is pre-arrange a time to meet.
The BluesRockS NAR section has experiemented both with using our Yahoo group to hold online meetings, and Yahoo messenger to talk to one another and it can work.
They're free because no one is willing to pay for them. That should tell you something. Yes they get some money from advertising but they would still milk the users if they could.
The Plaster Blaster Launches are a hosted by a club that is affiliated with both NAR and TRA. Here are the links and information.
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Area Rocket Team (DART) #317 Andy Woener
9547 Abbeywood Road Santee CA 92071
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San Diego(5) ANDY WOERNER
9547 ABBEYWOOD RD SANTEE CA 92071-2668
I'm not really sure that it's all that productive to get into the finger pointing game, as both organizations have suffered their share of close calls. When the first life threatening accident occurs in rocketry, both rocketry groups will be adversely effected. I think you'll find the leadership of both organizations in agreement with this position.
I totally agree with your statement that self-regulation at the local level will be the most effective tool in preventing accidents. If someone is doing something stupid at a launch, we can't expect Ken or Mark to hop on to a plane and visit the flying field to deal with the issue. I'm sure that you've offered "guidance" to many a flier over the years; it isn't something that one wants to do, but unfortunately in needs to be done from time to time.
I have seen people get a bruised or broken tow from ejection charges firing while they were waiting in line to launch and had the base of the rocket resting on thier foot ... OUCH!
I thought the issue was the fact it appeared you were standing very close to the model when it was launched. I don't think the featherweight recovery was the problem. Actually came down really nice and gentle.
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