Jerry is ... right.

ROFL

He was probably named/translated "Jerry" too :)

That's the bottom line, isn't it?

It's not about court orders, NAR, or TRA, it's about educating the Hobbyist... vendors included.

Reading the regs to the agent does no good if the agent has been told by his bosses that the regs don't apply.

That doesn't make any sense. The hobbyists and vendors don't make ATF policy nor do they enforce it. It doesn't matter what we say or believe, or what the law says. If the ATF says the PAD exemption no longer applies to rocket motors, they will enforce that until a court tells them otherwise. It takes a court to make them obey the law as written.

No, ATF would be politically and legally harmed unacceptably badly if they classified something as explosive that couldn't actually explode.

But they can still classify an extreme variety of things as explosives. Remember, I'm the guy who started the popcorn thread on ROL... ;-)

Usual or intended mode of functioning!

Is that why you quit claiming you manufactured your motors, along with no longer offering them in commerce?? Oh! that's right, TRA made you do it.. Where dem motors Jerry??

Fred

Duty superceeds orders. "It's the law."

Yes. Hard to do when you have the trade associations absolutely insisting explosives permits are needed until a court order in our favor says otherwise.

Precludes living the lifestyle, following the law, and continuing to set precedent in our favor.

All at once.

And not incidentally sets precedent in favor of ATF. And dares and taunts them to change the rules against our interest.

This is what NAR and TRA call advocacy.

History will be the judge that the leaders of TRA and NAR have been their/our own worst enemy for the past almiost 10 years.

History will indeed judge them harshly.

I have been on the record.

Jerry

"Jerry is a very knowledgeable guy, with strong opinions. He has a long history in rocketry, and a grey link to US Rockets (kits & motors). He's a fount of useful tech info. Others may have differing opinions of Jerry, and frequently drag up incidents from the distant past. I've done business with Jerry and had no problems, but have also had disagreement with him, so you get both sides of the coin here. In fairness, people either love or hate him - the polarity of opinion is that pronounced. Jerry isn't the biggest fan of TRA in the world. Recent events have forced people to re-evaluate their scorn of some of his predictions, which hasn't endeared him to them, for some reason. Just my two penn'orth. Your mileage may vary."

- Graham Platt

"Do What You Can, with what you have, where you are."

- Teddy Roosevelt

"I have tried to really make motor testing a professional operation and it is very obvious to me now as to why Tripoli was having problems 'gaining credibility' with practically everyone in the outside world, because they *really* DON'T have it with some of the people that really matter. And this reputation is well deserved. To be perfectly frank - Tripoli is a sick organization. These bylaw and Articles of Incorporation issues are merely the tip of the iceberg. Symptoms, not the sickness, if you will. Let's hope I am wrong with my assessment. But, as I said, I really feel we may see some concerted efforts to further discredit me, both inside the Board and to the membership in general."

- John Cato

"Don't let the bastards wear you down Jerry!"

- Tom Cloud

No.They illegally demand permits for goods that are exempt.

That's what they do.

Admit it.

Then correct it.

It REALLY is that simple.

Jerry

Big talk from someone who _didn't_ challenge the ATF's position on PADs... or do anything else at all constructive for the past several years.

TRA/NAR are not "trade associations". As for the insistence that explosives permits were needed, that came from ATF.

Yeah, too bad it's a broken record.

That's the ATF, not hobbyists or vendors.

We did, through the courts. Your idea of "correcting" it is to ignore the ATF. That doesn't correct anything.

YES!!! It really IS that simple!!!

Try asking Gary, he makes them. He posted they are legal you know.

You know, and I'm no Troll Apologist, but you guys saying things like E reloads are regulated is just as much FUD as the other stuff going on.

:(

Yes, and that bothers me the most.

ATF 'interpretations' mean squat.

By taking the ATF to Court over an obvious power grab by the ATF, we give the ATF (and the Court) the impression that any mumbling by the ATF is important.

The courts hold the power, the regulations hold the rules...

... interpretations by the ATF (or anyone else for that matter) are meaningless.

Like you say... 'Live the Life'.

Thanks!

Yea jerry, that's why you quit advertising your motors and "openly" selling your motors. TRA made you do it... Where dem hidden motors jerry? How you and the DOT doing these days; awful quiet... Look in the mirror to check on moron status!!

Fred

Where are dem hidden motors Jerry???? DOT want's to know; time to walk the big talk. Watch out for Bubba(;-)

Those are initimately associated items. And I'm sure I could make a bomb out of enough fuse if I really tried. Even enough e-match heads.

But if ATF regulated popcorn as an explosive, even though its normal and intended mode of functioning is to explode when subjected to externally supplied heat, they'd be boiled in popcorn 'butter'. There

One of my favorite popcorn movies is Real Genious, where at the end of the movie they blow up the evil professor's house with popcorn.

Alan