Quickburst shut down by BATFE

A vote for a libertarian candidate is better than a vote for either a democrat or a republican. A vote for the evil of two lessers is still a vote for evil.

Let me play Devils' Advocate here for a moment...

The way I understand it, the fellow who runs Quickburst (sorry, I can't recall his name...) had a LEUP, and yet has been selling igniters for some time.

Since a LEUP is intended for 'Use-Only'... and the sale of igniters is clearly outside that definition, it's no wonder he was approached.

And before anyone says "Well, what about Estes?" - I'm pretty sure that they'd have a valid Manufacturers' Permit in hand.

It wasn't the igniters per se that got the BATFE all worked up... it was the fact that he was selling them without a LEMP that brought it to their attention. Get the permit, and all troubles go away.

Guys, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Just because one vendor can't sell you igniters doesn't mean you can't buy the ingredients and make your own. Resistive heat element wires will always be around, as will metal powders and oxidizers (paint mixing? fertilizer?). There's no need yet for hypergolic mixtures, high voltage discharges, pulsed lasers, flux compression generators, radioisotope thermal batteries or ion plasma accelerators.

The ATF's actions are certainly a blow to Dave and his business, but rather than shout about how the sky is falling, let's move on, fight the good fight and keep on doing what we were doing.

I think he has a LEDP. It's the LEMP he does not have.

Perhaps. But as long as you have a device that initiates a regulated explosive (and they claim that APCP operates through explosion, right?) they you have a regulated material per Congress. Estes motors are exempt so their "igniters" don't initiate a regulated explosive.

Assume we win in October. Our BP charges are still regulated (unless the PAD definition applies, which I'm sure the ATF will claim it does not because the charges are not hand-held and therefore can not be a tool).

So why can't others sell "replacement parts"?

The US legal system has ruled this to be permissible with things like toner refills for photocopiers, replacement cartridges for laser printers, and even ink refills for inkjet printers (whose manufacturers are now resorting to other methods - chips on the ink cartridge - to keep the refillers at bay).

I think that turning a blind eye towards Estes is a Bereau strategy intended to pacify Estes in order to keep them out of the legal battle. They have a name that many congressmen will recognise. Vern Estes has a good story he told at NARCON in, IIRC, 2005 about why his model rocket motors is safer to have than to have people making their own motors out of match heads and other things. They can easily take out Estes when they're done with the rest of us.

Vote fot Cthulhu. Why settle for the lesser evil?

Bill Sullivan

Campus Crusade for Cthulhu

Which brings me back to my perennial rant. We'll never have a real democracy until all ballots have a "none of the above" option. If "none of the above" wins, the election is re-run until someone comes up with a candidate people ARE willing to vote for.

This would NOT extend the tenure of the previous electee. If the office goes unfilled long enough (weeks, months... years) maybe we'll get better candidates. Or realize we don't actually need that office after all....

I think we need the ability to force a "vote of no confidence" that disolves Congress and triggers a general election. I'd love to see this at the Federal level but would be happy just to get it at the State level. The amount of time and money wasted by the Texas Legislature (Republicans, Democrats, and I think even a Liberatarian or two) is criminal.

You've got nothing to complain about compared to Kalifornia...

David Erbas-White

On this day of all days, you choose to defile the FSM?

I remember hearing a story about some place that actually does this. Don't recall if it's a town, township, or whatever, but if no candidate gets a majority of the votes, the office remains vacant for the term.

I think we'd be a LOT better off if half the politicians currently in office were just gone tomorrow. We've had three recent presidential elections in this country where no candidate got a majority of the popular vote.

This is what confuses me about ATFE rulings -- they seem to be pushing people toward amateur activities, away from pre-manufactured components. Pre-manufactured components would give the opportunity to put trace elements into the mixtures so you would know where the stuff came from if it ever ended up in an explosive device. If everyone is building their own stuff, the ability to trace is hampered.

And it raises awareness of explosive compounds and their composition and structures, how they are made and work together. In this day of anti-terrorism, why are we pushing regular consumers to expand their knowledge of explosives? Every new formula posted on the Internet exposes more and more terroristic potential. This seems to have the opposite effect to me.

From what I understand, David had a LEDP, a dealer's permit. If so, and the issue was manufacturing, then why has the electric matches also been pulled from the QuickBurst site? You should be able to sell e-matches with a dealer's permit but they are gone from the site with the same message posted the igniters had.

Question: if you make your own black powder, is it regulated too?

But like the Energizer bunny, the government keeps on going and going and ...

Congress and the Senate were never meant to be full-time jobs, but these greasy bastards have figured out a way to make them a career! Never doing a thing except running their mouths, making big-buck deals that you and I pay for, and lining their own pockets.

Are you serious?? If the ATFE considers the igniters/electric matches illegally manufactured explosives, how could you then expect ATF to allow them to be legally sold? Fruit of the poisonous tree..(:-)

Fred

If the homemade BP is not for your own personal use and available for sale in commerce, its regulated..

Fred, I forgot we were talking about the ATFE and therefore logic and reason don't apply.

But what if your home-made black powder isn't in an ATFE-approved magazine?