Quickburst shut down by BATFE

I guess that is why I need a permit for class 1.3 road flares?

Oops, I don't need a permit for road flares. So much for that argument.

The ATF prefers to ignore DOT classifications. The reason for this is explained in NPRM 968: DOT takes packaging into account when assigning a shipping classification and the ATF cares not at all about packaging.

The only exemption is at 18 USC 845(a)(5). Even if you planned to use your home made BP in an antique firearm, it wouldn't be exempt because the exemption is for commercially made black powder.

Will the JBGT break down your doors as soon as you make a batch? Unlikely unless you have done something to piss someone off.

Alex, I see nothing in the law or regulations that makes a distinction between igniters that are designed to initiate regulated explosives or unregulated materials.

Estes igniters aren't regulated by the ATF simply because they choose not to. Perhaps Estes has a copy of an ATF ruling, or perhaps not. The MSDS for the Estes igniter lists potassium nitrate and charcoal as ingredients, which makes it a "potassium nitrate explosive mixture" which is on the list of explosives.

Or it could have something to do with the small amount of pyrogen per Estes igniter versus the amount in a Quickburst Fatboy igniter.

The only surprising thing about this enforcement action is that it took the ATF so long to do it.

Road flares are exempt aren't they; if used for their intended purpose?? (:-)

That has always been the case. Much of the piro devices used in the aircraft industry ship under a lessor shipping classification exemption, but when received by the end user must be stored as it's basic classification. Example: Some fire bottle squibs ship as a flammable solid, but must be stored as a regulated explosive by the originator, prior to shipment and the end user, until installed in the acft or on the equipment part such as the fire bottle.

Fred

See the response by Dave Shultz, pretty much covers it.

Fred

Yes! Yes! Yes! Now how do we end political careerism? Larry Lobdell Jr.

Not really Bob. In most cases, voting for a lib is a "throw away" vote, as you and I both know, the chance of that candidate getting elected is slim to none...

By voting for the "lesser of two evils", you are none the less raising the bar on who actually does get elected. In the real world Bob, if you only vote for libs in November, it would have the same impact on the process as if you turned in a blank ballot.

What if the "extreme Ahole" from party A wins by one vote over the "promising guy" from Party B? Your vote would have mattered, had you not voted for the guy from Party C with 14 other voters, only because he was in party C...

... First day with the hook!

Squawk! Pieces of Eight! Squawk! Pieces of Eight! Squawk! Pieces of Eight! Squawk! Pieces of Nine! Squawk! Parroty Error :-)

Even my rocket dog, Goddard is a pirate. She says "RRrrrrr" a lot, and steals things.

You've been gone too long Darrell. You should know thid by now. It's the government. It doesn't have to make sense.

I wore my pirate socks today.

arrrrrrrrr-gyle.

The complete class of "igniters" is not regulated by the ATF. Devices containing a regulated material are regulated. Not all igniters contain ATF regulated materials.

The manufacturing of fireworks for sale requires a manufacturing permit. However, many fireworks can be purchased, stored and used without an ATF user permit because the use is exempt from needing a permit.

Do you know if Estes igniters are totally unregulated or are you speculating? Potassium nitrate and charcoal is black powder. The more it is milled the more it goes KABOOM! Sulfur is not a required component of black powder.

Oxral, Daveyfire, M-TEK, "Cosmos" ematches all contain one or more ATF regulated materials.

My opinion is that the regulation of the sale and storage of ematches that contain a minute amount of material is pointless and a waste of tax money because they present no significant risk to the public. Eating spinach or fish is probably riskier. Mixing a couple of common household chemicals is far riskier. Anyone wanting an ematch for doing evil can easily make one.

Another opinion is that politicians, of any party, will not solve our problems because they have nothing to gain from deregulation and much to gain from creating more regulations.

Not to mention the fact that the regs vastly increase the pool of LEUP holders -- meaning, more people who can legally purchase REAL explosives, not just rocket motors and igniters.

=D3

Say, what's going on with that Kinky character in Texas?

A very specific exemption exists at 27 CFR 555.141(a)(7) for consumer fireworks. No such exemption exists for igniters.

Since I can walk into a hobby store anywhere in the country and buy Estes igniters without showing an ATF permit from a store that has no ATF permit, then they are not being regulated.

As does the Estes igniter.

Bob, the world changed on 9/11, and you just can accept that.

A real story here.. Went a bought a new car today - first time in 10 years.

anyways I was handed a form to fill out, and I asked why the info on the form was needed. The salesperson told me that it was due to the TSA and the patriot act, as they needed to insure that I wasn't a terrorist! (I'm a 48 year old guy from Milwaukee, and just buying a new car!)

That's what happens when you "throw away" your vote.. The idiots remain in charge. Vote for someone that you think might actually get elected and have an impact, even if it's "the lesser evil" of the folks that stand a chance.

The government in the US is what the people vote for, and throwing away a vote, is like not voting at all!

I know it's "talk like a pirate day", but I'm not sure when "talk like a fool" day is. I'm sure you got that marked on your calender Bob, so give us the date. We could call it "talk like a Kaplow" day, if that makes you happy!

I suppose you are right, Bob. I let logic re-establish itself in my life...

Now if I can just figure out how to get my son's sparklers inserted through my I357T nozzle...