ROL NEWS--AeroTech Files for Chapter 11

Jerry Irvine wrote:

On 12-17-03, I wrote:

Dave had the rocket at lunch today. Got it yesterday in the mail. It's called the El Lubbo. Means "The Pound" in Spanglish, I think.
It's a 4" diameter MR. Three tubes coupled together make the airframe. The tubes were light and strong. Looked like good quality MR tubes.
The fins were very light balsa. They were a little rough looking, and will need some sanding, but very light, and acceptable.
The rings were made from good plywood, but fit kinda loose on the 29mm MMT. A third piece, to be used as a bulkhead/baffle was included. It was drilled with maybe seven quarter inch holes. Seems there shoulda been two to make a baffle.
The instructions looked well put together and up to the task.
The nosecone and tailcone were to be made by the user using couplers as shoulders and rolled, cut paper as the cones. This part was pretty cheesy. Not that it can't be done, but we've all seen how 4" shrouds usually turn out. But this doesn't kill the deal. A little cheese shouldn't bring the world done (on USR).
The chute was pretty poor, but would function. It looked like some sort of white nylon cut with pinking shears. The suspension lines looked like packing string, and were tied onto the canopy thru small holes. Again, not too swooft, but it will do.
So, the kit did finally show, and the overall quality wasn't unacceptable. Dave can build it or bash it. The tubes and fins alone would make a great start for a variety of rockets. I offered to turn him a nice balsa cone for it.
Jerry did indeed deliver. After others had posted here weeks ago that they'd received USR kits (as part of the saverocketrynow program) and others had said they'd gotten their prizes from all the other vendors, I concluded Jerry was weaseling out on his obligation to Dave. Well he came thru after all.
I still thinks he's a blowhard, loudmouth, whining POC who pollutes rmr to the extent of nearly ruining it, and I still think he needs a lesson in manners Texas style, but he did deliver.
Doug
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doug_man snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Doug Sams) wrote:

No! From the airframe tubes.
Shockingly strong and light.
Build it truly stock, review it then FLY it.

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:01:21 +0000 (UTC), "Doug Sams"

Since you brought it up, please name one person who was "ripped-off" by Jerry. Atleast that way we can ask that person first hand.
Bob
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baDBob wrote:

How about Foxeye?
Bob, you've been hanging out here as long as I have, and anybody that's been here longer than a week knows to proceed with great caution when deal with JI.
Doug
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wrote:

Yo' Jerry,
Did you not say that you had refunded all the moneys to everyone over the T-shirt deal?
I could not find any other issue that Foxeye was saying that he was "ripped off" for. He had some complaints about kits from Jerry, but he states that he returned them.
Bob
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Yep and posted here dozens of times to see if there were any stragglers. I am imperfect so I wanted to check. IIRC in 3 years ONE guy said he didn't get his refund but didn't want it anyway (so he could post that he was ripped off). So I force refunded him.
He kept posting for a while afterwards anyway.
Other than that. Zero.

Ithink he stated he refused to return them and then falsified photos to make them FAR worse than any components I have ever seen in my life.
Even actual water and rodent damaged tubes I have actually seen.
Sound like a familiar story? It shold.
Jerry

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Sadly, I'd have to disagree. At least not since Dan Meyer left. The honest truth is that talented engineers very rarely make good businessmen. Gary is definitely the former and not the latter.

AT should have been paid for all their losses from their insurance company. It's their insurance company, AND the owners and other tennants of the Palm St. building (and their insurance company) that should be sueing the county big time.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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writes:

is
company.
Palm
county
That's a pretty darn good idea.
Joel. phx

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I would not anticipate the filing having any effect on production, unless they are unable to purchase raw materials on credit
the plan appears to be to continue operating with the intent of paying off some creditors to some degree
I think the ones who are being affected most here are the AT lawyers that now can't collect their fees
- iz
Duane Phillips wrote:

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Duane Phillips wrote:

Businesses of all sorts use Ch. 11 to increase the likelihood they will be able remain viable in the long run. It is actually a good sign for Aerotech that they are willing to face the facts without letting themselves bleed to death.
First, keep buying their products as you normally would. This is capitalism, not charity. ;)
Secondly, spread the word that the hobby is not dead. It is going strong and people are flying whatever they can afford, legally with or without a LEUP. Keep the FUD to a minimum. That will help every rocketry-related business, and will get more people interested in all aspects of this very cool hobby.
-John DeMar http://delta.syr.edu/jsdemar
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strong
Sad truth is though John, I do not have access to their product like I used to. The hobby is not dead (yet), but I wholly disagree that it is "going strong". In fact, I utterly refute that claim.
It is not FUD, it is actual fact of stock not on the shelves of places where it used to be, forcing me to buy at elevated prices and pay unit based shipping. We cannot rely on so few motor makers. While I want to help AT to not go away (and now understand that this move may help that) I still do not want to rely so heavily on them. The costs associated with home brew are not looking so bad by comparison, in the current situation.
~ Duane Phillips.
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Have you talked to the manager or owner of these stores to figure out why they don't have any stock? It could be they decided not to stock them after not being able to get motors for 18 months.
Aerotech still has more demand than supply for some sizes of motors. Production levels are not yet back to pre-fire levels.

Most motor manufacturers are not interested in the 18mm, 24mm, and 29mm market due to low margins on those products. AMW and Cesaroni are only doing 38mm and up.

If you are willing to pay for shipping, you can fairly easily get Aerotech motors. Most likely will be cheaper for the small motors than making your own.
You really need to make EX motors for fun, not to save money. To make them safely really requires a good sized investment in equipment and supplies.
I'm getting started in EX and I figure I'll spend enough on equipment and supplies up front to buy a few N2000 reloads.
Brian Elfert
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And you will be able to make about 10 times the number of N2000 loads with that investment. The Kitchen Aid and the Scale are going to be much less than a N2000 load, and the rest is pretty much casting tubes, mandrels, chemicals and misc supplied. It does not take $2000 to get going in EX. If you spend that much you will certainly be able to test and fly a few O motors at the least with that kind of cash.
Pax

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with
If
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If you add 3 zeroes to all numbers you get close to the CTI mixers.
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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No, you do not have to invest $2000 in this, but to really do it well and very safely requires some cash outlay.
A Kitchenaid mixer is only going to cut it for small batches. Too many people have killed Kitchenaid mixers, including someone I know personally.
If you spend $300 or $400 and hand mix motors, you could still buy quite a few F and G motors for that money.
Brian Elfert
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writes:

with
If
http://www.trailertrashaerospace.com/propellant_page.htm Checkout the mixer.

$200 3/4hp drillpress and about $100 to outfit with planetary gears. Everybody needs a drillpress.
Sorry, forgot this wasn't rec.crafts.metalworking,...
Joel. phx
"sure those we can let you have. cross out 'machine gun' and write in 'pizza'"

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You don't NEED a Kitchen Aid either. I've done 1500 gram loads mixed by hand. Worked like a charm. It works best when you invite a couple of friends over to help and share the mixing duties. I've been EX'ing for two years and still don't have a mixer.
Kevin Rezac

with
If
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When your hand gets so tired it feels like it is about to fall off, you are a third of the way there. Unlimited pot life before the curative is added :)

Motor MAKING chat on rmr!
This is definitely TRA-EX and Aerotech's fault!
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Brian E. wrote: << Have you talked to the manager or owner of these stores to figure out why they don't have any stock?>>
I'd also ask why they don't carry any of the other available certified high power motors such as CTI and AMW.
<< If you are willing to pay for shipping, you can fairly easily get Aerotech motors. Most likely will be cheaper for the small motors than making your own.

I've found that it's often possible to get F and G motors cheap enough online to make it worth paying for shipping, at least if you're buying more than one or two at a time. For instance, when they have them in stock Great Lakes Hobbies sells G40's and G80's for about $14 apiece, and shipping was only 7 or 8 bucks when I bought ten of them.
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