OT - Time for the UK to leave the EU?

Rob van Riel wrote:


They may be labeled as "right wing" by those on the "far left....but in this report, they are using the official numbers, as recorded by the U.S. Census Bureau. These figures simply back up what Al was saying: That even the majority of "the poor" have automobiles, air conditioning, color TV's, etc.

You have the appropriate reaction. But still, this is what qualifies as "poor". That is why the politics here is so mean-spirited. One of our major political parties constantly tries to take away as much money as possible, from those "evil rich", to give to "the poor". (even when it is our system, which this party seems to despise, that has enabled 75% of "the poor" to have air-conditioning, etc.). Despite what you hear on TV "sound bites" from these people...."poor people" are *not* "starving" here. No one goes without health care. Proper care is available to *everyone*. Paying for it, is a different matter (as we taxpayers finance most of it); but if someone *needs* some life-saving medical help...they get it.

--

Greg Heilers
Registered Linux User #328317 - SlackWare 10.1 (2.6.10)
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A sign on the wall in the emergency room of the local hospital attests to the fact that no one will be denied treatment. And to illuminate yet another salient aspect of the health care issues facing US taxpayers today - the sign is repeated in Spanish. ;-) I expect that is the case in many US hospitals.
WmB
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On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:00:23 +0000, Greg Heilers wrote:

There's two issues here. First, the definition of 'poor'. I think we can all agree that the Census Bureau has a very generous definition of this. Second, the standard of living, relative to Europeans. I think that, on average (dangerous phrase, I know) living standards in the North-Western part of Europe are on par with US standards, given comparable income. However, the EU has recently absorbed a large number of (relatively) very poor countries (mainly Eastern European and Mediterranean), and already had quite a number beggars already (Spain, Portugal, Ireland, former East Germany come to mind). Comparing the living standards of the US 'poor' to those in the poorer (especially rural) areas of the EU would probably put the US poor at the advantage.
Back to the Heritage Foundation. Their report is based upon official census data, which I will not dispute. However, input from the census bureau isn't their only source, and interpretation of the input is of course entirely theirs. I've already agreed that poverty in the US is probably overstated, and covered the comparison to European conditions. The rest of their report (although I must admit not having read every letter of it) certainly qualifies as extreme right wing to me, but then again, from a Dutch perspective, US politics are best divided into far right and even further right.

Granted that 75% of the official poor, aren't, that leaves 25% to really worry about (if I remember the numbers correctly, that would be 4% of total population included in the numbers). Lets call that 5%, to account for those excluded from the numbers. That would still leave 1 in 20 in trouble, in the richest country in the world...
Rob
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Rob van Riel wrote:

Are any of you familiar with the "Yorkshireman" sketch from Monty Python?
G
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On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:04:34 +0100, Graeme Cosgrove wrote:

Sorry, nope. Is a really condensed version feasible?
Rob
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Rob van Riel wrote:

Five Yorkshiremen try to odo each other as to who was poorest as a child...e.g. "...when ah were a lad, we were so poor we 'ad to lick the moisture off t'tarmac for nourishment."
"That's nowt" says Yorkshireman No 2, "We were so poor we lived in a cardboard box in t'middle of a lake "... etc. Take a look at
http://ayup.co.uk/laugh/laugh0.html
You lot trying to argue who's the poorest between the USA and Europe brought it to mind...
G
(If you need a translation, let me know)
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On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:55:52 +0100, Graeme Cosgrove wrote:

I don't think that was really the point, but I must admit there were some similarities..
Rob
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wrote:

Bingo!
--
Al Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968

My "From" address is munged - click "Reply To" to respond via email.
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Rob van Riel wrote:

In my area crappy townhouses are now selling for $272,000 and if you want to rent one it'll cost you $1500/month. Is that enough of a clue?
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On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:40:10 -0400, Ron wrote:

Let me guess: you live in one of the larger cities? I hear similar insanity from Amsterdam/Rotterdam/Utrecht/The Hague. Fortunately, I don't live there.
Rob
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Rob van Riel wrote:

Nope, I live in a suburb of Washington DC, about 15 miles out. It doesn't improve to any great degree until you're bewteen 75 and 150 miles out depending on which corridor you take. If it's a decent commuting corridor the prices are higher than along the smaller routes.
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Greg Heilers wrote:

I don't have one...yet.
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Although you may pre-disposed to disregard this source, it is in fact a US Government agency,the numbers are real, and it's readily available:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html
Cellular telephones (2003) - 158.7 mil, third in the world after entire EU and PRC. GE - 64.8 mil; FR - 41.7 mil; NE - 12.5 mil
Internet users (2002) - 206,000,000 (70% of pop), second in the world after entire EU (2004 data).
Per capita GDP - $40,100, second in the world after LX ($58,000). NE - $29,500; FR, GE - $28,700
"Poverty Line" for a single person under age 65 is $9,573. For a family of four with two children it is $18,660.
Suggest you read the following from the Census Bureau:
http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p60-226.pdf
KL
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On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:43:01 +0000, Kurt Laughlin wrote:

I will not dispute these numbers, nor will I dispute the CIA's status. However, being an official government agency does not equate being correct all the time. If they want to lump all of the EU together for their statistics, that's a perfectly acceptable decision. It will, however, affect the quality of said statistics.

Thanks for the link. I already did, by the way.
Rob
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Rob van Riel wrote:

Just come to Washington DC then and visit the SE section....of course you may also see things like a 15 year old walking down the streeet with an AK-47 or an escaped camel wandering along....both of those things happened yesterday.
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On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:36:51 -0400, Ron wrote:

Jeez. I thought New York was supposed to be, how shall I put this, eccentric at times..
Rob
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Rob van Riel wrote:

New York is just plain weird.
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then poor

Yes we stupidly moved in to clean up the mess the French left.
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On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:04:19 -0500, Gray Ghost wrote:

Actually, you helped create it by siding with the French in their fight against the Vietnamese. If the US had backed Ho Chi Min from the beginning (as he asked), the French would have huffed and puffed and moved out, Vietnam and the US would have been good friends, and the whole bloody mess in that region would have been far less. Instead the US turned him down, and Ho went to the Russians, who had less qualms about annoying the French.
Loyalty to an earlier ally is all fine and dandy, but that doesn't mean you should back him up when he's about to mess up on a grand scale. A lesson the French have apparently learned.
Rob
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Not exactly that... USA didn't come to VietNam to help French, but to fight against communism and the USSR and chinese influence in this part of the world because French were not able to win alone...
BTW, is it because yout brother helped you in the past than you must help him to make a bullshit ? The best way to help him is to try to show him he is wrong and to disadvise him to make the bullshit... and that's what France and some other countries tried to do before 2nd Gulf War...
--
Chris

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