OT: Winter Shelling Scene in Band of Brothers Last Nite

FWIW I don't remember reading that the Germans had developed a proximity fuse, but timing fuses is always an option. I remember from my own time in the Army a thing called a "catwhisker" fuse. It was fitted to 81 mm Mortar shells and was designed to detonate as they came down through the tree canopy over an enemy's position. Whether this type of fuse could be used on full fledged artillery shells as opposed to mortar shells someone else will have to say.

Bill Shuey

Proximity fuses were an American innovation, and the technology was still new in 1944. For security reasons, they were used only in antiaircraft ammunition until the Battle of the Bulge, when they were released for use in conventional artillery rounds. The Germans used impact fuses, and tree bursts were generally a matter of chance. Don't know if the Germans used time fuses in conventional artillery, but calculating for a precise airburst when firing over the horizon must have been phenomenally difficult. Since both sides used open-topped armored personnel carriers, air bursts were apparently not considered a major threat at that time. Gerald Owens

Thought they were Canadian-invented, Allied produced and used? There were four ways to get an air burst:

-as you note, the "variable-time" (VT) radio fuse which would detonate at a fairly consistent height above the ground when the fuse detected the ground (or an aircraft or raincloud for that matter.) As you said these were not used for field artillery until the BoB for security reasons and the Germans did not have them at the time.

- time fuses (mechanical and powder train) These were used by field artillery to produce air bursts. Germans used them but they were not as consistent in height of burst. It was a bit more time consuming to calculate and set fuse settings, but not that complicated. The main use was Heavy AA.

- as noted, HE shells fused for "instant" could be fired into forests with the deliberate intent (hope?) some would hit branches.

- "fuse delay ricochet" Set impact fuse to "delay" (.05 secs IIRC) and fire direct at as flat a trajectory as possible to hit the ground just in front of the target troops.. Self defence technique and not used often. Cheers, Doc

In point of fact, the German Sig33 field piece had specific ammuntion for just this and was used heavily in North Africa.

Nope, definately an American invention... First used in the pacific, one of the first uses was downing a betty bomber at long range.

And IIRC, arty shells were fairly easy to fuse for an airburst, which is really what one wants out of arty being fired at dug in troops. Fairly easy in theory, but inconsistant in reality.....

Look at a live arty round sometime, the fuse has *grooves* {sic} on it for a *key* which is used to set the timing of the fuse. Look at footage sometime of arty crews in action, and you will occasionaly see a crewmember using said "*key* to set the fuse on the round. Or like on an 88, there was a *slot/recepticle* for the nose of the whole round to inserted into, to set the burst height of the shell after it had been programmed into the guns gun laying sytem.

"Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."

Azzz1588->

VT fuses were developed (invented?) by a naval ordnance team led by Deke Parsons, who later went to the Manhattan Project and ultimately to fusing the first A-bomb in Enola Gay's bomb bay.

-Rick

I have BofB on dvd, and have watched it several times. I'd like to offer my opinion to the original question. Based on what's happening, plus viewing some of the supplemental material, I think neither theory is correct. I think the Germans, knowing the GIs were dug in on the treeline, sent occasional barrages of shells into the treeline just to scare them. Hitting trees wasn't actually lucky...it was intentional. It seemed meant to keep them on edge until the Germans made their advance. BTW, the bonus material that covered the making of BofB was fascinating. Virtually the entire forest in those scenes was recreated on a soundstage. Even the trees were artificial, with some designed to "fragment" when hit by shells. Anyway, this was my take on the situation.

Randy

We're living in a world that's been pulled over our eyes to blind us from the truth. Where are you, white rabbit?

in the battle of the huertgen forest book, the author said it wasn't to keep heads down, but to kill and maim. the 88's were supposed to be good at this,

FWIW The VT Fuse was invented at the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory in Baltimore, Maryland, USA. The JPL was one of the first efforts by the Military to establish a cooperative effort with academia to address defense problems. The JPL started out working on Radar,I believe, but the VT fuse was their most famous W.W.II product.

Bill Shuey Johns Hopkins Alumni

In Ambrose's "Citizen Soldiers" this (shells bursting at tree top level) is discussed in the context of the Huertgen Forest battle. It was a tactic used to kill allied soliders laying prone in foxholes (ie. their entire backs are exposed to shell fragments). After a short time, the GIs realized what was happening and began to stand up and "hug the trees" during shelling, which exposed much less of their bodies to the shell fragments.

thanks for the jog, the heurtgen book says the same. i knew it was a deliberate tactic in that battle.

You neede to see the movie "When Trumpets Fade" Completely about the Hurtegen forest, and yes it clearly shows soldiers "hugging" the trees..........

"Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."

A practical working proximity fuse was part of what the Tizzard Mission delivered to the US in August 1940 when the US was given all the UK technological development. With the Tizzard Mission the UK essentially sold its R&D soul. Having said that, Tuve in the US had been working on the problem as well, just that the Brits' (Forman, Butement, and Pollard) design was almost complete.

The USN was solely responsible for producing the fuse which was known as the VT fuse. V standing for the Section 'V' of the Bureau of Ordance in charge of the programme and T was the code letter.

The Canadians were important to the fuse development as the University of Toronto (Arnold Pitt & R.W.McKay) developed the battery.

The fuse was first used by the USN as there was fear that if used against the Germans and the Germans acquired a copy, it would mean the end of the heavy bomber offensive.