Re: Firefly Loss

From the footage that C4 News aired, it seems the pilot just ran out of airspace at the end of a manoevre.

Jimi

Good grief... we're still whining about losing the Heinkel and we lose this!! The only question I have regarding warbirds and their owners is which will we run out of first: warbirds or rich guys?

We are not going to run out of rich guys, unless they all decide to start crashing warbirds.

Mark Schynert

And if the Queen wanted to have a 'new' one build, I think she could afford it.

Woody

Hub & Diane Plott wrote:

CBS ran the footage this evening.

Pancaked at the end of a manouver done at far too low an altitude.

Sadly pilot and passenger (referred to as the "navigator" on CBS!) both died doing what they loved.

Tom

It depends on the group and the aircraft. In the documentary Gate Guardians about the BBMF, the Station Commander effectively said of the Lanc' "There is no replacement for that aircraft so nothing over 2G and no night flying." etc....

I was at Duxford and happened to see the Firefly doing this strange manoeuvre.

It was not long earlier that a mate and myself watching the display had been saying that you don't need to be so daring to show an aircraft off. If you want to do aerobatics, use a jet and trash that instead.

Richard.

We see and hear people all the time and there's more and more of us born each minute! That plane will not be heard again. All this pseudo-religious "life is precious, people are precious" crap is boring. We ARE animals and it's great that we exist and nothing more than that, we have no 'right' to anything nor do we 'deserve' or 'not deserve' or assume that 'we are the shepherds and governers over all we survey' biblical crap.

A lot of us will miss the Firefly!

Richard.

In article , Ron writes

The real loss is the sad loss of the crew, the aircraft is immaterial.

Better flying that sitting in a museum leaking oil. If we had the same attitude on PA474 (BBMF Lanc - 1 of only 2 airworthy) a lot of people would miss out, and Bomber Command sacrifices in WWII would not be remembered in the same way.

Actually the Royal Navy Historic Flight is not owned or run by the British Gov, it is a self funded heritage organisation. It has no connection with the Royal Navy other than the use of the facilities at Yeovilton.

From what I understand the Flight brought in a new pilot to train for display duties on the Firefly this year (March I think) it is possible that it was the new pilot at the controls, this may explain why he attempted that manoeuvre at such a low altitude, one which was unrecoverable from.

Steve

pseudo-religious

exactly! 60 million people in the UK, 2 less doesnt bother me......sure miss the chance to see the Firefly tho.

in article berfcs$489$ snipped-for-privacy@news7.svr.pol.co.uk, Richard Brooks at snipped-for-privacy@kdbanglia.freeserve.co.uk wrote on 13/7/03 12:25 pm:

I will miss the a/c, i will miss the sound of it beating up the airfield and beating up Westland BUT I still think that the loss of an a/c if pritty insignificant to the loss of two aircrew.

Under; as I said it may sound callous, but I don't feel the loss of the pilots. It's the plane that saddens me. As I responded to that point, I don't know how to describe the sense of loss when one of these planes goes down; you either feel it or you don't.

I have been accused of sounding callous before but when it comes down to it, I don't know those two guys. I'm sure they were stand up, terrific guys.

I do "know" the Firefly in the context that I really like the artifacts and want them kept intact where ever and however it is done. If they indeed were doing something at too low altitude, I guess they should not have been attempting.

My apologies to hurt feelings out there, but I will grieve and be angry for the loss of the aircraft, not the pilots flying it.

Regarding another's comment about not appreciating (paraphrasing wildly) Bomber Command's sacrifices if not for seeing the Lancaster fly over head... I don't buy that for a second. If anything it glorifies warfare to get kids interested who might eventually join up whatever service.

Actually I crawled around inside a non-airworthy B17F last year and got a first hand idea what it would be like to have to crawl into and out of the tail gunner's position. I got a very clear idea that these tail gunners had a very difficult egress back through the fuselage. THAT, more than seeing one fly over head, made me realize how vulnerable they were and what hazards they faced on a regular basis.

"Fleet Air Arm SIG" schreef in bericht news:1zcQa.646$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...

Coincidently I was at the FAA museum this thursday and saw a Firefly (the same one?) making similar manoeuvres at a similar scary low altitude as prior to the crash that could be viewed on TV. It is my impression that the manoeuvre and altitude in fact were according to plan but that only in the final stage of the manoeuvre something went wrong.

From what I saw on the news, it wasn't such an unusual manuver - a lower altitude loop. What seemed unusual was that the pilot tried to save te airplane (and himself) by initiating a reversal ro recover - at least that's what is looked like to me...after that the aircraft got essentially level and then pancaked into the ground.

I lost a friend in a similar incident in an F/A-18 a few years back - and he was practicing for an airshow. Same situation occured during an airshow in El Toro - nose above the horizon, but not enough room to get positive rate of climb. In both cases, the pilot rode the jet into the ground - the one at El Toro survived, my friend didn't.

As I've stated before, jet deomonstrations almost always include a slow speed, high AOA sequence because that is precisely he part os the flight envelope that a dogfight ends up in after about two to three turns. If the sponsor is trying to "sell" the aircraft (or impress the techno-scouts publicly) this sort of thing is going to be included in the routine.

Plonk.

Sorry Tom, they didn't die 'doing what they loved'. Those last seconds before impact would surely have been spent in mortal terror. At least they had the joyous experience of doing what they loved just before they died. Close, but not the same.

It's a sad loss, of both a/c and crew. The Firefly isn't replaceable, nor are the crew. The crew leave behind family and friends, but as has been said in this thread already, they knew the risks and chose to roll the dice anyway. If I went the same way, it would be with the knowledge that I had chosen to risk my life to experience something a select few have. My big sadness would be for those I left behind.

RobG (the Aussie one)