Revell U-Boat

Smithsonian has the other one. (Had the pleasure of seeing it sitting next to an Arado 196, one one side, and a B 17 D on the other :)

But a 1/32 P 61 would be NICE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."

What about the P-61 being restored by the Mid-Atlantic Air Museum?? This is the one that was salvaged from the side of a mountain in New Guinea. That would make it three left I believe.

Bill Shuey

All of this verbiage and you don't build a sub? Guess you don't build anything since you spend time replying to messages that do not apply to your part of the hobby.

Let's discuss how aircraft modelers pay exorbitant prices for the Trumpeter

info/materials

Bill

Of course not Bill, not sour grapes and nor were they of a personal nature! I did say "if" one were cynical one could suggest that as a reason for the defence of the original point, which, as I recall, was nothing to do with accuracy or otherwise. Quite why you should regard those comments as "sour grapes" is baffling. I have only a passing interest in subs and no real interest in building one so the subject matter of the model in question is not really an issue. I do, however, dislike the underhand manoeuvre Revell have pulled here, I simply cannot believe they could not know, months in advance, exactly what the production costs would be and, therefore, what the projected cost of the final kit would be. That it is simply a "typo" or that they miscalculated by some 33% sounds far too lame an excuse to me.

Your application to the furtherance of the hobby is beyond reproach and certainly never questioned by myself.

There is a fine line between 'nitpicking' and constructive criticism. If we all shut up and accepted what the companies gave us there would be no need for the companies to improve their products or services, I'm sure they are quite capable (the companies) of sifting through the comments and acting on what they perceive are justified criticisms.

I tend not to agree, I don't believe that by airing a view point on a particular product that constitutes moaning, in fact America has by far the best organised groups capable of applying pressure to manufactures to alter their products, than we do in the UK, we tend to sit back and accept what we're given, typically British I suppose. I don't agree it will reduce the desire for new products in the slightest, prior to the Internet they probably had no real idea why a particular product failed to sell, these days they get, more or less, real time feed back into how a product is being accepted which gives them a chance to put it right, if they can, before the product bombs. Trumpeter did it with the Wildcat so it proves that they DO listen to what we have to say, which cannot be a bad thing, but by telling us don't say anything or you'll be considered a "moaner" is, IMHO, not particularly desirable.

I'm quite sure you do have far more knowledge of the industry than I do but, and this is the real crux of the matter, I am the consumer the product is aimed at. If Ford announced the price of their next new car, then hiked the price by 33% almost immediately, you can pretty much guarantee the sales would take a nose dive so why should Revell be treated any differently? Is it because 33% on this particular kit of only a few dollars whereas 33% on a new car would run in the 1000's so it can be explained away and we should all be jolly grateful Revell even produced it in the first place? Sorry, but shoddy and underhand practices are the same whatever amount is involved, Revell should have bitten the bullet for 6 months the gradually raised the price to what they think is the correct level. By doing it this way they have simply alienated consumers, which long term isn't good for the company.

Steve

?!?!? Let's see, you spend an equal amount of time here, plus your work in the industry, and yet you make this comment. You'll do well to not play the lottery if this is the quality of your guesses.

As for the verbiage about something I don't build, I do build Revell kits. If it happens once, what is to stop it happening again?

Moreover, as noted by others, if it alienates customers, my interests will eventually be affected as well.

First, let's note the critical difference. A company starts a price high, and leaves it there. Versus a company that announces a price, waits a bit, then says we made a mistake and the price jumps suddenly. Hopefully it is just a mistake for company two, because if not, who knows how much more we will see later across the industry?

As to your Trumpeter observation. If the price starts high, and stays there, the customers have spoken. None too bright if your criticisms are correct about inaccuracies etc., but if people want it, and the company has been up-front about the cost, that is that.

Nope.

Although, I am talking to a couple of history teacher friends about possibly donating kits and supplies to students for extra credit.

Of course, if that works out, and some kids take up an interest, seeing kit prices suddenly jump by a third with the excuse "Oh, we didn't do out math right, and waited a while to make it known," they may get right back out again.

Well there's also the 1:32 scale resin one from Andrea in Spain, last I saw it advertised it cost only 1999,95 (US $ that is)!

I thought the USAF Museum at Wright Pat had the other one...are there three, or did the AF give theirs to the NASM?

Dont know if the USAF museum at Wright Patt. ever had one. I know the Chineese have one on outdoor display.

The Air & Space museum always had theirs stucked away in a crowded hanger with the likes of the B 17 D, (Swoose) the Arado, an X 43 mixmaster, an AH 1, among others. Hanging from the cieling was an AIM 47A Falcon, still with the cloth tuff's stuck to it.

Now that the restoration facility has moved to Dulless, they are no longer visable to the public. The He 219, Mig 21PF will stay at Silver Hill also untill the restoration is finished. Both are fairly well along. Same with a few others.

Speaking of which, I get to go to the new Dulless facility tomorrow for a look see, and will take lots of digital pic's. Which is exactly whay I did the last day the Silver Hill facility closed forever. I was in the last general public tour that they had there. Got lot's of pics, but a sad day for me... I loved going there a couple of times a year before they closed........ The new facility will never have the same intimatness....................

"Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."

If knowledgable modelers pay Trumpeters' price of their own free will after seeing in depth pre-release reviews by their own kind, is the price really exorbitant? I gladly pay a little more for a subject I crave than build stuff that isn't of interest but is cheap.

Is there any kit made where everyone agrees in its total accuracy?

Tom

Could be it was on loan.

Tom

Yes. Everyone who has ever looked at the Aoshima E16A Paul floatplane agrees on it's total accuracy--zero.

Less facetiously, no, of course not. I've never heard anyone say a bad word about the 1/72 Tamiya M6A Seiran, but I'll bet you someone has a gripe. Likewise, the Accurate Miniatures TBF/TBM kits got real good press, as did the Tamiya He 219, but someone has probably got nitpicks on them too. We're modelers--we don't know any better.

Mark Schynert

Yes - I believe I've read a few comments on the one that was at Wright Pat not being "properly" restored...most particularly that the transparency in the aft fuselage was of the wrong shape.

It's been a long number of years since I've been the the USAF museum - I can't recall if I actually have laid eyes on that particular P-61. I recall all of the German aircraft - particularly the Me 262 and the cut away Jumo engine sitting next to it.

Sure would be great if there really was/is another one out there somewhere...

There are websites documenting surviving axis aircraft (and components), chassis histories of every Porsche 917 and 956/962 racecar, whereabouts of all US spacecraft, locations of all known civil war ironclads and wrecks, so its possible there may be a website with this info. Warbird International and other magazines give updates on the current state of vintage aircraft search, discovery, and restoration.

Tom