NCE or Digitrax

Yes. As well as Lenz, Zemo and a few other smaller companies. Since this is a down the road purchase, you really need to study Lenz.

Digitrax documentation has been roundly bashed for years. It hasn't changed.

Each of the big three, NCE, Lenz and Digitrax, is the product of one dominating person. If feedback makes sense to that person, then change happens. The Digitrax 400 controller was a response to folks wanting dedicated buttons.

CTucker NY

You got that right! I used the very latest version of JMRI and Java with my NCE and could NEVER get it to work! I even contacted the author of JMRI and he was of no help.

Frank Eva Digital Railroader

And you'd still have to pray that the software would actually work. I invested in a new flat panel screen (a cheap one of course) for this very purpose (not enough space in the train room for a monitor), and could never get DecoderPro to work. Even the author was of no help. To me, this is a waste of time, energy and even money, when all you really have to do is learn how to program from your controller. And, the software is "public domain", meaning that if you download it, there are no guarantees.

I was never able to figure out how to input commands in hex - I wonder if it could be like a telephone keypad, where certain letters are attached to certain numbers???

When it comes to documentation, I could not recommend Lenz. They've obviously lost something in the translation from German to English, and in the process, they have not only released confusing documentation, but in many cases, downright erroneous. I told Debbie Ames about the start voltage error, and I've many times told her that either their decoders or the ones they make for Atlas do NOT default to silent drive.

I also do not like their concept of radio control - give me a break - who's going to use a wireless telephone for a controller?

Frank Eva Digital Railroader

Matt, some more comments inline below:

: 1) Do both companies appear to be healthy enough to continue with : ungrades, etc.?

I checked the SEC (Edgar) database and was unable to find either company so can't give an objective response to this query. Personal experience with Digitrax and observations thereof suggest they are healthy and expanding. I can't comment on NCE.

: : 2) Does either company appear to be moving toward a new hand held, or : will we see the same ones [their best version] on the market for quite : some time?

I have been hearing about a duplex radio handheld from Digitrax for some time. Don't know any schedule though. History says that Digitrax will continue to expand their offerings. : : 3) Would NCE ever consider a duel know hand held to acquire the : advantages Digitrax is enjoying with that design?

Don't know.

: : 4) How does each company [historiically] respond to user feedback such : as the thread we have here [being that there have been many, well : stated, indirect, suggestions for improvements and changes to both : company's equipment and/or software?

Any company that hopes to grow will listen to users; I have seen several examples with Digitrax but have not followed NCE. Digitrax' biggest problem appears to be their documentation which they tried to fix once with their "The Digitrax Big Book of DCC" but that's dated. They certainly followed reasonable progressions (and user requests) with their improved handheld controllers, the addition of RF (with retrofits offered), stationary decoders, detectors, power distribution panels, transponding, _and_ lower price/higher feature decoders.

Matt, you can observe a lot of info that may help with your decision by looking at the archives for the Digitrax Yahoo group at:

Over 65,000 posts (>1,000 a month) and 3,790 members The Digitrax guru is Don Crano at:

Some information Digitrax has posted about itself (the staff & facilities photos appear to be rather old):

Another group is non-aligned and fairly new at:

with 746 posts since inception and 363 members.

The NCC Yahoo group has 1,764 members and (roughly) averaged >300 posts a month this year. It is at:

Some information that NCE has posted about itself:

Frank Eva wrote: (whacked up to the point)

Actually that was my first reaction. Then someone purchased one and brought it down to the club. They plugged it into the bus and it works really well. It is much more intuitive and easy to use than I would have ever thought. There are several large layouts (clubs and private) here in Denver that use them quite successfully. The worst operational part was people accidentally pushing the "emergency stop" button which would kill power to the entire layout. Then we discovered we could turn off that feature in the Lenz LZV100 command station, and it has ceased to be a problem.

I am now seriously considering just getting the wireless phones instead of the CVP 1300 I was going to get. That's about $120 less per throttle.

Nope - good point.

Never the less, revisions to what is out there for systems that are out there would be good customer service. Particularly if they got it right for the Zephyr.

CTucker NY

I believe that Yes they are. The problem would be that both seem to be driven by a single owner (as is CVP). So should they wake up one day and decide they've had enough, who knows.

Each company already has different hand helds. If one doesn't like the NCE hammer head, they also make a utility throttle. With the Digitrax Zephyr it has jumper ports that you can use to fashion any sort of throttle you would like. Lenz has both push button, knob throttles. I fully expect other companies to create new various throttles to work with each of these systems. I have my own prototype I'm working with to make it do what I want it to without being "video gamish".

They might. Write them a note and ask. Some people consider the dual cab a aberration. If the goal is to operate prototyically, one engineer would not be controlling two trains (Note, I don't think that I've just heard the argument. I often run two train simultaneously esp. when we are short of engineers at an operating session).

I got quick responses from both when I was asking about existing product. I got no response from NCE when I bashed one of their designs and told them how to fix it.

the command station (for NCE).< I know, I was just tweaking Andy a little!

NCE has been totally unresponsive to every email request I've sent them the past 3 months - it's almost as if they no longer check their emailbox - perhaps they have deferred discussion of their products to the user groups they refer to on their home page.

Frank Eva Digital Railroader

JMRI is a free Java application that works on most of the flavors

PC, MAC, Linux, UNIX?

Some quotes from the webpage:

************** DecoderPro works with most of the popular DCC systems (Digitrax, EasyDCC, NCE, Lenz, Wangrow, Zimo, etc.), and runs on both Windows, Linux, and Macintosh systems. It works via your DCC programming track, or optionally can be used to program locomotives directly on the main track. ******************* JMRI connects to a LocoNet via a Digitrax MS100 adapter or a LocoBuffer. Lenz and Atlas systems require a LI100 interface; note that you can't program decoders with an Atlas system and an LI100 due to limitations of the Atlas Commander. EasyDCC, Wangrow and NCE command stations connect directly to a serial port ***************** We have had a report that a 100MHz Pentium is too slow to use, and another that a 120MHz Pentium II is fine, so somewhere around there is the minimum machine configuration, but it's important to have enough memory. We recommend you have at least 48MB of memory for Windows 95 or 98, and 64MB of memory for Windows 2000 or later. Having 64MB or 80MB respectively would give somewhat better performance. For the more complicated programmer screens, a display with a resolution of 800x600 or larger is strongly recommended. ******************************

-Hudson

speed steps?"),< I think that information is easy to find, the real problem is nomenclature. Digitrax calls it "status editing" and I'm not sure what the others call it. All the systems have their own nomenclature for doing basically the same time. It sometimes makes discussions hard simply because the words are different.

Did you try pushing on the right knob, like it tells you in the documentation for the DT400? That toggles it back and forth from decimal to hex mode and back, giving you an "instant conversion table"... and hex mode displays an "x" before the CV data value (not the number of the CV) in the display... (page 47 of the DT400 manual, listed in the index at the beginning of the book) However, the "native" mode for the DT400 is decimal... so normally no conversion is necessary.

RTFM... you may not like the writing style, but it's all in there. _I_ don't find them hard to read, myself... but then, I can read a full orchestral score, too.

Hi Frank, Actually hex or hexadecimal means a base 16 number system ( what we use every day is base 10 - ie 10 digits 0 through 9) When you run out of regular digits at 9 you start using the alphabet for the next ones. So "A" in hex is the same as 10 in decimal and so on with 16 decimal translating to 10 in hexadecimal. Hex numbers are more compact than binary and since translation between hex and binary is relatively easy hex is used.

Check this out if you are interested

Lynn

Worked perfectly first-time on my EasyDCC system.

John Dennis

I couldn't get it to work, and it wasn't because of a lack of trying!

No, I guess I never really wanted to in the first place. I "think" better in decimal! (grin) Anyway, I guess I should have checked the manual to find out how to do it, but I had much more important things to do than waste a half-hour trying to find it in their manual.