NCE or Digitrax

Froggy,

I was at the Portland Convention and Met 'AJ' there - 1994? They were selling the 'Challenger' and you could 'make' up to 4 tethered 'throttles'. I had bought a 'Challenger' unit a few months before that from BLW and had Kato or Atlas GP38/GP35 converted by that time(Aztec milled frame).

They have been around about 10 years.....

Jim Bernier

snipped-for-privacy@thep> That part is true and not true at the same time. The encoder used in the DT-100 is

Yeah, that's right. That was before the beginning. That was what started the whole thing. The actual factory came somewhat later. At the time you mention there was not really any "Digitrax" except in Zana's mind. That convention was an epiphany for Digitrax.

........F>

I have very few negative things against the DT400. I personally think it's great to have so many functions available at the press of a button. However, there are still some things that require multi-buttons, and I really wish they would have provided a dedicated button for them. You can find more info about this at my website (URL below).

Frank Eva Digital Railroader

Yes. I don't have to program in Hex. But, other manufacturers or instructions for decoders talk a lot about programming their CVs in hex. Which means that even though the ProCab has a keypad, I have to convert the hex values into a number first. So, if they give me a string of hex values, I need to know which of the 0-9 keys I need to press.

Kennedy

FE> throttle that is allmost 6 FE>years old. FE>> I am trying to decide if I want the DT-400 or the DT-300. I like FE>the compact FE>> size of the DT-100. The DT-400 seems kind of large. What are your FE>> thoughts on the size and weight of the DT-400?

FE>I have very few negative things against the DT400. I personally think FE>it's great to have so many functions available at the press of a FE>button. However, there are still some things that require FE>multi-buttons, and I really wish they would have provided a dedicated FE>button for them. You can find more info about this at my website (URL FE>below).

FE>Frank Eva FE>Digital Railroader FE>

Any opinion on the wireless vs. IR versions of the DT400 ?

Jeff

Go with the radio. IR is line of sight and you would be amazed how effectivily a body can block an IR signal.

-- Please note; return email address has changed. It is now snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net. Emails to Earthlink will be ignored.

The Gratiot Valley Railroad Club bi-annual train show and sale March 7, 2004, at the Macomb Community College Sports and Expo Center. Macomb County Michigan. Please visit our Web Site at:

Actually, I never used IR, but since it must have line of sight to the receiver, it might be difficult for a large layout owner.

I am also interested in the opinions of more people who have used the Radio throttle. We had on post that was negative on radio but didn't really explain why. Is it something to do with lag time or false signals?

Paul McGraw

You can find my opinions on radio control at the URL below. Essentially, the NCE system has such poor response time that I have literally given up on it. Mind you, this is in an 11'x17' room. So, it isn't a matter of distance, or position of the antenna. And it isn't a matter of battery power - it happens with fresh batteries! And the delays are not the same all the time.

Frank Eva Digital Railroader

Digitrax is faster than NCE, BUT........... I have radio and do not use it. I probably won't buy any more radio throttles either. I have infra-red and don't use that either. Our group here used IR for almost fifteen years in one application before he switched from CTC-80 to Digitrax DCC. I never liked the way it operated. I have returned to fully tethered and am perfectly satisfied with that mode of operation. ........F>

What specifically did you not like about radio control? Was it technical issues (dead spots where it couldn't receive signal), or some other type of problem?

I'm thinking about radio control for my Lenz system right now, would be interested in what your "bad" experiences were (as well as the good ones).

Thanks! Scott

I think manufacturers in general could do a much better job in the DCC documentation. Realistically, it should include the following:

1) Steps by step instructions on how to set up a "basic" system (INCLUDING "tests" along the way to make sure things are working ok, and possible troubleshooting tips if they aren't). Really this should be a straightforward "do steps 1 - 10 and it should be up and running"

2) After the installation instructions, more general information organized by category (i.e. how does the thing work in a little more technical detail, consisting, flipping turnouts while driving your train, how to expand system, etc.

3) several laminated "cheat sheets" for experienced users that gives quick summaries of all commands

This should help both the newbies and experienced users. One of my frustrations is that I am an experienced Lenz user, but sometimes its

2 - 3 months between when I can run my trains. Hate having to scrounge through a book to find the command to add a new loco # onto the stack, etc. (of course, I could probably create a cheat sheet myself, but I think all systems could use one already included)

FWIW, Scott

Well, Scott, radio is like so many things in this tree of many branches we call model railroading. Just like the gladhands on Kadee couplers; some people swear by them, others swear at them. I have some difficulty putting my experience with radio into words, but I guess the best thing I can say is that I am not "comfortable" with the response characteristics of the radio. Its reliability is unpredictable and the response times are variable in a random sort of way. I have used radio and Infra-red for nearly twenty years to operate my trains and those of the others in my group, so I am no newcomer to the realm. I got radio when I got my very first Digitrax DT-100 throttle. It was OK for a while, but the "new" soon wore off and I realized that I wanted to have better control of my charge when I was operating anything other than a through passenger train. If your operation is exclusively mainline through trains, then radio will work just fine for you. If, on the other hand, you like to do switching and run locals, the radio is sorely lacking in the quality that I can only describe as "finesse". As much as I like DCC and Digitrax in particular, I cannot honestly say that I like the radio. Your Mileage May Vary.........what can I say? ........F>

----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott" Newsgroups: rec.models.railroad Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 9:08 AM Subject: Re: RADIO-------was------NCE or Digitrax

You probably should talk to someone who uses a Lenz radio system. Lenz does not offer an integrated radio controller. Instead, they have an adapter that you use with a wireless telephone. There is a 3rd party radio controller available, though.

Frank Eva Digital Railroader

Froggy, what was it about radio that you didn't like

Paul McGraw

Good Morning!

.......[[snipped]]

Could you detail specific reasons for the return to tethered.

Jim

This was a concern of mine when I was looking into the Digitrax system way back when. I figured I could learn everything an owner could know in the first go despite the learning curve, but if I put it down for 2-3 months, I'd have to learn all the little tricks all over again.

Kennedy

I did this earlier, but I will try again:

Radio is like so many things in this tree of many branches we call model railroading. Just like the gladhands on Kadee couplers; some people swear by them, others swear at them. I have some difficulty putting my experience with radio into words, but I guess the best thing I can say is that I am not "comfortable" with the response characteristics of the radio. Its reliability is unpredictable and the response times are variable in a random sort of way. I have used radio and Infra-red for nearly twenty years to operate my trains and those of the others in my group, so I am no newcomer to the realm. I got radio when I got my very first Digitrax DT-100 throttle. It was OK for a while, but the "new" soon wore off and I realized that I wanted to have better control of my charge when I was operating anything other than a through passenger train. If your operation is exclusively mainline through trains, then radio will work just fine for you. If, on the other hand, you like to do switching and run locals, the radio is sorely lacking in the quality that I can only describe as "finesse". It is too "loose" and "sloppy" for me. As much as I like DCC and Digitrax in particular, I cannot honestly say that I like the radio.

Your Mileage May Vary.........what can I say? ........F>

Good Morning!

Good Morning!

Thank You, Froggy, for your comments on use of Radio-Control with DCC. From what you describe it sounds as though this would not be a good choice for trolleycar operations which has frequent starts and stops and very close operation to other traffic.

Haven't purchased DCC yet -- plan so to do sometime next year

-- best guess now.

Tried to send the *Thanks* privately --- but internet couldn't find your pond!!

Jim