Re: Toronto Convention - Update from the organisers.

I curse the person who laid out these borders with no respect to the people living there. Jeez, was she stupid!

Jay Modeling the North Shore & North Western C&NW/CNS&M in 1940-1955 Due to spam, all e-mails except those from selected addresses will be refused. Thanks for your understanding.

Sounds like the "domino theory" again.

Once again I curse the British Foreign Office (or whoever) for arbitrarily carving up that area into countries with no respect to the territories of the indigenous people.

Jay Modeling the North Shore & North Western C&NW/CNS&M in 1940-1955 Due to spam, all e-mails except those from selected addresses will be refused. Thanks for your understanding.

Weren't the borders roughly to seperate warring tribes?

Paul

Wouldn't have mattered because the indigenous people have no respect for other indigenous people or the other indigenous people's land. I would imagine that the indigenous people became indigenous by taking their land from other indigenous groups who did the same. All the ME's indigenous people are as pissed as wounded badgers so maybe the best way for the world to deal with them to leave all of them alone. About 10,000 years of evidence indicates that indigenous ME people, don't want peace, hate peace, have established lunatic religions to prevent peace and will not change. Some how they have not Darwined themselves to extinction yet and if we keep interfering they never will. Bruce

"Duhhh, go check out Russia's contribution - they were fighting around

Basically from my foreign policy contacts the whole Iraq thing as a DOD show. The State department wasn't involved. Rumsfelt believed that Sharif Ali bin Hussein, a cousin of the last Iraqi monarch could basically walk in and be declared ruler. Isn't going to happen.

The bigger problem is that is no Iraqi civil government. It was all the Baath party. Now that it's been removed there is no infastructure.

Another problem is that the people don't particularly like Americans. They know we supported the Hussein regime through the 1980s so they hold us responsible for it's actions. They're gald he's ousted but we're not going to get any credit for it.

If you take a dump on someone's living room carpet you shouldn't expect them to be greatful when you come and clean it up.

I don't think we're going to be able to out of there anytime soon, unless we give up and turn it over to the UN.

As formenting democracy and nation building. They're just not things I think of when I think of the Bush administration.

Eric

Jay Cun Yep, the US gov't took tribalism into consideration for this, but only so far as ousting Saddam's family from power from what I could see. What tribal/clan problems will the next choices for power provide for Iraq? Dunno, but I hope they're native choices and not ours. Get there, get 'em elected, and get out.

This would have gone better with paragraphs.

And now for something off topic.

Re: Toronto Convention - Update from the organisers.

Rob.

True, but that was after it became apparent that there was no way in hell Bush was every going to back down. I still didn't want it, but it's sort out of like having a root canal. You don't want to do it, but sooner or later you know it's going to happen.

I'll oppose it in November '04 when the elections come up.

It makes one to wonder.

Jay Modeling the North Shore & North Western C&NW/CNS&M in 1940-1955 Due to spam, all e-mails except those from selected addresses will be refused. Thanks for your understanding.

The information I have, from a friend who has studied that region's history more thoroughly than I, is that a woman in the British Foreign Office carved up the area and named the countries irrespective of any tribal affiliations. That's why there are Kurds in Turkey, Iraq, and Iran. Other ethnic groups are likewise spread across multiple countries.

Jay Modeling the North Shore & North Western C&NW/CNS&M in 1940-1955 Due to spam, all e-mails except those from selected addresses will be refused. Thanks for your understanding.

I could be wrong - you want to risk it?

Yeah, thats the problem when self-serving foreigners invade to put right "difficulties" they see as existing in regions where they don't understand the indigenous people. Aren't we glad that we are sooo much smarter that the Brits of a century ago!

You also encouraged Kurd and Shii uprisings against Hussein and then left them to be slaughtered. Then you expect them to wave US flags as you march in!!!

hey Kiwi,

I do more than boss immigrants around. Why don't you come to New York and I can show you some of the wonders of the City. Including a 16 acre hole in the ground which used to be know as the World Trade Center. I would really like you to go around the different fire departmrent engine houses and say to the firemen and women some of the things you post. I would then take you to see the Police and Port Authority people who lost their comrades. I would be very curios what you have to say to thenm face to face.

I feel your pain bro. Keep up the faith. Keep some models handy instead.

In my opinion, _the USA_ deserved the WTC attack. The individuals did not.

As for Iraq, you've just slaughtered 20-30,000 innocent people after subjecting them to 20+ years of dictatorship and deprivation. I'd be interested to hear what you would say face to face with their grandmothers, grandfathers, fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, aunts and uncles - do you think those people have feelings any less genuine than your New Yorkers?

Regards, Greg.P.

Who cares, let er rip

Those of us who aren't ignorant troublemakers care.

And that concludes our off topic discussion on world politics. We'd like to thank all who participated and hope future discussions will remain on topic, hopefully ones that have something to do with the hobby of model railroading.

"In my opinion, _the USA_ deserved the WTC attack. The individuals did not."

I have to disagree with you here.

While I understand the symbolism behind WTC; it was the mother of all stupid ideas. OBL should have been smart enough to understand that the people at WTC aren't the people who make the policy that he finds objectional. He's part of a family that's part of the arab side of the equation. He would have much better served going after the beneficiaries of the policy.

"As for Iraq, you've just slaughtered 20-30,000 innocent people after subjecting them to 20+ years of dictatorship and deprivation.

I'd be interested to hear what you would say face to face with their grandmothers, grandfathers, fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, aunts and uncles - do you think those people have feelings any less genuine than your New Yorkers?"

And they're much more apt to do something messy to express their outrage.

It's just like Bush, when we begin to run low on terrorists to go out and manufacture more.

Eric

"You" being the USa - don't take my comments so personally as I intend no personal insult.