Online Manuals

downloading the manuals from the Internal

no longer be available. You can still

100 downloads a day it may not be

people have needed and used.

That is very bad news indeed, Paul, and I would suggest an email to ebay at once to let them know what is going on. They can be responsive when something is serious enough, and the sooner something is done the better.

I've only had need for the service the once, and that was for the Bolinder that we recovered from Spain, but I know from other emails and posts that the service is greatly appreciated.

Perhaps it could be protected by a password that has to be applied for from you? makes a bit more admin work for you, but may be the only way to stop this sort of thing.

For others reading this post, I should say that I have had many sections of my own site 'stolen' and placed elsewhere on other people's sites over the past year or so, sometimes by people on the mailing lists which is not what you really expect.

That is not quite as bad as what Paul is experiencing, and perhaps it would be worthwhile contacting the ebay vendor's buyers and letting them know how the guy came to have the manual copies in the first place....

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Engine pages for preservation info:

downloading the manuals from the Internal

will no longer be available. You can still

up to 100 downloads a day it may not be

lot of people have needed and used.

There's always one that spoils it for everyone who appreciates the effort that goes into such a service. The only way to control it would be to have a login registration (which won't stop a serious rip-off merchant) or to make a nominal charge (to charity or the museum, whatever) for each download. However it would be a shame to see something so useful lost to people who are mature enough to use it responsibly.

Regards Dan

downloading the manuals from the Internal

moment will no longer be available. You can still

having up to 100 downloads a day it may not be

a lot of people have needed and used.

Sadly the element that think they can make a quick dirty buck by ripping off other peoples work spoil it for genuine people. Is it not possible to trace the abuser and take appropriate action.

Sorry to hear it Paul, I was impressed with your facility. Generosity is always abused by someone.

Regards, Arthur G

downloading the manuals from the Internal

no longer be available. You can still

100 downloads a day it may not be

people have needed and used.

Paul, Never having a need for any of your manuals I have not visited the site so I don't know how these were laid out but if they were scanned images you could always place a watermark over each page that read something like

___

Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together.

downloading the manuals from the Internal

no longer be available. You can still

100 downloads a day it may not be

people have needed and used.

I just did a search on Ebay for Satworld and found two CD items on sale so I sent the following post to Ebay and Satworld, May I suggest others do the same?

**************************

This is a copy of an email sent to Ebay complaining about stolen content from

being sold as a CD on Ebay.

*************************************** ___

Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together.

It pays to be cautious and the wording of those two items is ambiguous. The blatant rip-offs have been removed. I therefore emailed "satworld" (at

2028hrs) and asked him to advise the CDs content and confirm that he owned the originals. He has not yet replied. A Google search in UK turns up a probable identity for this charmer and the possibility that he works for Satworld (else why the handle?). I wonder if his employers would be interested in his activities. His feedback is also interesting. My interest BTW is that some of the manuals he has ripped off are mine freely loaned to Paul for free distribution, or sale of copies to benefit Internal Fire, at his discretion. regards Roland

downloading the manuals from the Internal

moment will no longer be available. You can still

up to 100 downloads a day it may not be

lot of people have needed and used.

Blimey, Paul - don't let this rest - shop him to Ebay & encourage them to do their worst. I couldn't believe how convenient it was to get the Villiers info from your site - it'd be a real shame to let some shyster profit from all your work

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- snipped-for-privacy@boltblue.com John Lloyd - Cymru/Wales

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Email address for this rip off merchant at least this is the address that he replies to an innocuous question from.

I dont suppose that he replied to you Roland did he? If he did was it from the same address or a different one.

If by any chance anyone else "asked the seller a question" and got a reply from a different address will they let us know as this will infringe ebay security rules and they will take a complaint very seriously then

In message , Paul Evans writes

Can't see that replying from a different email address is particularly unusual, George, a lot of people including myself and Arthur for example have work and home emails.

Can you point us to something specific on this? I'd like to know more in case we are breaking the rules somewhere.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Engine pages for preservation info:

I'll have a look in the local directory at work and see what I can find out about the company etc.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Engine pages for preservation info:

Thanks to all for their support on and off group and the suggestions.

Complained to Ebay.

Sent message to all those who have purchased from him explaining the origin of the files - no replies from anyone as yet.

He has not replied to any messages.

He has not taken off the current auctions.

We are having a chat with the solicitor this morning to see what if anything can be done.

Thanks Paul

-- ____________________________________

Internal Fire, Museum of Power, Wales

(under construction)

downloading the manuals from the Internal

And the transfers he is offering are of course originally from David Edgington, nothing illegal there I suppose, just that this seller obviously doesn't care how he makes a quick profit.

will no longer be available. You can still

100 downloads a day it may not be

people have needed and used.

I'd be very sorry to see this service go, I have used it myself on several occasions and it is an incredibly useful resource.

Regards

Philip T-E

Turns out rainbaby62231 is doing the same thing in the US :-(

Complained to Ebay in the US too, may get a little further there as a couple of US companies that we have manuals for were initially reluctant to give us permission. They are a little hotter on copyright - I've mailed to let them know what is happening.

I've had 32 manual requests since the system was turned off - don't think I will be able to service the requests by hand as there are not enough hours in the day!

Paul

-- ____________________________________

Internal Fire, Museum of Power, Wales

(under construction)

US companies that we have manuals for

copyright - I've mailed to let them know

will be able to service the requests by hand

Ebay has to be the centre of your complaints, if these people can't sell then they will hopefully stop the theft.

The idea of watermarking sounds a good idea also, but again makes more work for you.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Engine pages for preservation info:

We did consider it but thought it would spoil the look of the manual for people.

I have the sofware to watermark the files in bulk, trouble is, there is nearly

400Mb of files and I am on a slow link :-(

Paul

-- ____________________________________

Internal Fire, Museum of Power, Wales

(under construction)

What has happened to Paul is very bad, it must have been a titanic effort to scan all those books. The trouble is, paul does not hold the copyright to them, so I dont think that any rules are broken? I hope he gets back on line soon as his service is very usefull indeed. I for one always direct people straight to that site if they are after copies.

Peter, your comments are interesting also, which sections are you refering to? I know that people have used info from my site, but then thats what I built it for I guess!

Regards

Chris

May I add my voice to those who have said it would be a great shame to lose this valuable resource. I have used it a number of times both for engines I have and sometimes just for the joy of browsing (I am one of those sad individuals who will happily sit down and read a manual just for fun!). A water mark would be no problem for me as I am interested in the content rather than the appearance of the document.

Your work IS appreciated Paul.

"Chris Bedo" wrote

Hi Chris, True, we do not hold the copyright to the originals and in most cases the copyright has expired. However we do have permission to distribute those manuals that are still copyright and have even sought permission for those out of copyright. In the case of the american engines the copyrights are still in force and the companies involved have been informed.

It took over 6 months to get the permissions (and I still missed Russell Newbery) and has taken several years to get to where we are. We have a fair amount of money invested in equipment to do the work as this is also a part of the plan for the museum - creation of reference facilities within the museum and online - in addition to the manuals already online there are books, drawings and catalogues that have been scanned. This is something we need to do to assist us with Museum Registration under the Council of Museums for Wales.

The work involved in scanning them and placing them online is ours and the terms of download are that they must not be resold in any way. This he accepted by downloading the files. Certianly our solicitor seems to think there is a case for him to answer.

Paul

-- ____________________________________

Internal Fire, Museum of Power, Wales

(under construction)