Do all Bachmann 25's emit a loud buzzing noise when power is first applied or is it just my factory chipped version? I was under the impression that DCC avoided armature rattle but the 25 is actually louder than my old Triang A1A-A1A fed from a Hornby controller.
Also since when did BR apply 'lime green' warning panels to locomotives?
(kim)
This was only ever applied on friday afternoons.
ie. after the pub on payday..
Pete
Some DCC decoders are refered to as "Quiet Drive" - is that something to do with it?
Adrian
"Adrian" wrote
I believe the Bachmann 25 from the Digital Freight set is factory fitted with the Lenz (equivalent) LE1014E decoder which has a silent drive feature.
John.
John Turner wrote:-
If it is then it doesn't work at slow speed settings. I was surprised just how much juice I had to feed to get it started compared to the 08 shunter. At medium to high speeds the buzz is replaced by a mechanical whirring. If the loco were to be equipped with sound effects, they would be virtually inaudible at any speed setting. Never having owned a DC driven 25, I don't know if this is normal or not.
(kim)
"kim" wrote
I've got three DCC (LE1014E) fitted 24s & 25s and all are superbly smooth and quiet.
I'll have a look later and check one of the Digital Freight sets which we have in stock to confirm which decoder they have used. It's just possible that they've fitted the equivalent to the LE1000 (MacCoder) which are not so good and do cause a buzzing.
John.
"John Turner" wrote
Had a look, and they do not have a conventional decoder, but one built into the large printed circuit board which sits atop the chassis. The one I tested does buzz, which implies it's a derivative of the LE1000 (non-silent drive) decoder. I wasn't too impressed with the running qualities when used with my Lenz Compact, whereas, as stated before, my own 24s and 25s run superbly and quietly.
If I'd bought one of these sets with the factory fitted decoder I'm afraid I'd be dumping the printed circuit board (and the numerous yellow capacitors which are positioned under the motor) and hard-wiring an LE1014 decoder in it's place.
Not sure what you mean about a lime-yellow warning panels. All our stock are ................... plain yellow!
I apologise for suggesting earlier that the train-set locos were fitted with the equivalent of the LE1014 decoder. That was the gen given by my Bachmann rep.
John.
John Turner wrote:-
Thanks. It at least proves mine is not a rogue variant and at least it works so I'm not complaining.
Under consideration. Sounds almost as much work as building a closed loop controller for a DC locomotive.
I'd noticed it before in adverts and assumed it was a photographic error. The warning panel on the two-tone green 25 is much more green than the warning panel on other 25's and certainly much more green than the real thing which I often saw in the 1960's. It looks as if the yellow has been applied over a green base coat which is showing through. My room lighting is halogen which is very revealing of colour tones.
Hardly your fault, you acted in good faith. You might want to try the E-Z controller with various chipped locos to see if that throws up any other anomolies? It might save you some time in the future.
(kim)
"kim" wrote
Not difficult. Firstly remove the printed circuit board and dump, then ensure all wiring (and capacitors) is removed from the motor. Connect the wires from the loco pick-ups to the red and black wires of the decoder and finally attach the orange and grey decoder wires to the motor brushes.
The LE1014E decoders are superb in Bachmann class 20s, 24s, 25s & 37s but I've found I need LE1035Es in the Peaks and class 40s.
John.
John Turner wrote:-
If there's a shortage of starter sets this Xmas I'll auction the whole set on eBay and start over again with the lessons I've learned. Otherwise I'll probably follow your advice.
Noted for future reference, thank you.
(kim)
(Almost) All DCC decoders output a PWM 12 volt current to the motor. It's up to the decoder designer as to what frequency the pulses make. Some decoders make the pulse frequency adjustable within specific ranges.
(HO) motors gain some performance in the 40-200 Hz range but the downside is that these are audible frequencies and a motor with poor bearings will be noisy. The 'silent' decoders produce pulses in the 10-15 kHz range where most humans can't hear them. (the family pets, dogs, cats, budgies etc must get driven nuts) The silent decoders won't drive your locos quite so well at slow speeds because
10-15kHz PWM is like pure DC voltage to our motors. OTOH most silent decoders include feedback control which balances out the low frequency PWM loss.Weren't some of the original two tone green Diesels given a lighter green front panel??
Regards, Greg.P. NZ.
"Gregory Procter" wrote
Ironically two of the most popular silent decoders used in the UK, Lenz LE0511 & LE1014, do not include back emf control.
Whilst the most popular ones with feedback control, the Lenz LE1024 & LE1025 ranges, do not offer silent drive.
John.
Not 'most' at all, silent drive and feedback are two seperate functions which are only offered together on the more expensive decoders and only very recently with the exception of Zimo who were first in the field with this combination. Silent drive is now available on all except the 'budget' decoders but feedback is still a premium offering. Keith Make friends in the hobby. Visit Garratt photos for the big steam lovers.
The little ironies of life. 8^[
For this reason I decided to standardise on the TCS range of decoders. I believe that these are all silent drive and all BEMF/feedback. The main differences are the amperages they handle and the number of functions.
Graham Plowman
"kim" wrote
Kim, I've discussed your problem with someone with loads of DCC experience who bought one of these sets from me a week or so ago. His class 25 buzzed when first operated, but after removing the capacitors and resistors (fitted around the motor) the buzzing disappeared. I saw the class 25 running this evening at Wakefield Show and it was no noisier than any of the other locos he had on his DCC demo stand, including some expensive Kato USA diesel jobbies.
John.
John Turner wrote:-
It makes you wonder why Bachmann installed all that extra gubbins to begin with? They must have encountered these problems when E-Z Commander was first launched in the US. Interestingly the factory-fitted loco doesn't work when analogue control is selected although I haven't yet tried it with a dedicated analogue controller.
(kim)
In article , kim wrote: Interestingly the factory-fitted loco
Phil: Of course it won't if placed on a dcc-powered track! Selecting 'analogue loco to be controlled' is in ADDITION to anything left running under DCC control, and is produced by adding extra 'padding'
1's or o's to the dtatstream to alter the AVERAGE voltage present on the tracks--instead of being a symetrical alternating waveform (average zero) it is biased one way or the other as you turn the control knob -- and therefore any UNFITTED loco will respond (with a bit of a buzz, too - most mnoticable when stationary.A DCC fitted loco, when placed on a PURE DC controller, will fail to detect the dcc waveform, and therefore change its operating mode (possibly after a brief delay) to looking at the applied dc voltage, and once it reaches about 8V will start to accelrate the motor, and give it full speed by the time the track volateg is 12Volts. ---DON'T go 'switching' the track power direction when the loco is moving .. it may not respond as you expect... ALWAYS bring it back down via ZERO volts before reversing. This will allow to processor to start up afresh in the new direction.
(Default setting of dcc decoders assumed - whereby they will run on dc power as well)
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